R26 - Harnesses and what to attach them to

You can mount them to the floor (like in the R26r) as long as the seat is designed for it.

I've bought a set of harnesses but having second thoughts about whether the Recaro Trendlines are up to the job if I crash.

I've read that if the seat isn't strong enough harnesses mounted to floor can break the back of the seat.

 

Recaro have confirmed that the Seats in the R26 are designed to work with a harness.
You use a scroth fitting and attach one to the bolt that holds the seat belt bar (offside) and the other to the bolt that holds the seat runner.
Then you fit the upper strap(s) to a Transit Van D ring that fits to the bolts that hold the rear seat in.
I'll try and send pictures from when i have mine on...if I can find them.

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The one on the seat belt runner should really go through the bolt that holds the bar in.

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I know you can use harnesses but at what angle are they designed for? There's a big difference between the mounting to floor with fixed buckets vs reclining seats. I wouldn't want to risk the seat collapsing in an accident.

 

I've welded some plates into mine to mount the lower part of the belt and the upper will be on the cage when I get that in. There is a "preferred" angle on the upper straps from what I've heard because not just for the seat integrity I think spine compression comes into. I could be wrong though


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Get your seat in your driving position then measure the angle between the harness hole on the seat and the bolt hole underneath the rear seats.
What difference will having a harness on make to the seat collapsing in an accident; I don't see how the harness would create any different force?

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I'll check the angle of mine, I'm pretty sure that it's well within the tolerance on the diagram above.

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The R26.R has the lap belts secured under the seat frame base which is not ideal as if the seat comes loose then so do you! I have relocated the lap belts in my R26.R by using the original inertia seat belt fixing point (bolt) on the base of the door frame (hidden under the carpet) and also drilled through the tunnel and mounted a plate and through bolted the other belt there. Much more secure.
IMO the issue with rear floor mounted belts is that with a two piece seat in the event of an accident the vertical angle compression load can collapse the seat. This should not occur with a one piece seat (R26.R Sabelt carbon, Recaro pole position etc). I always mounted a rear strut bar for the shoulder straps in my previous R26's.

 

The seat collapsing is my worry as well.

I emailed Recaro last night so I'll update this thread with with they say if I get a response.

 

This was my resolution for waist mounts


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That's pretty much what I have done except that we mounted the plate with a threaded nut welded on attached underneath the tunnel with a drilled hole inboard for the eye bolt to pass through the tunnel wall and into the plate. That way I can revert the car one day if required without having the plate inside.

 

I agree and also adds the tunnel metal wall bulk for additiinal torsional ridigity...

 

Yes this is agreed and once I will have a plate on the outside too. I know it's overkill but safety is paramount and all that. But the load is still spread with the plate on the inside rather than a straight nut and bolt as I've seen before. But your are right if I were to crash I'd want it pulling the bolt and the plate through from the outside of the car for optimum effect

 

Don't tell me that people have tried doing it the other way round???

Anyway: the angle of the shoulder harness are very critical. There are reasons why people invent these guideline and in proper motorsport these things are strictly scrutinised.

I wouldn't understand someone fitting harnesses and then not installing them properly.

 

He's meaning how mine is on the inside of the car as oppose to being on the outside which I know isnt the way before I get slated Hahah. I'm double plating so will have one externally too. Only got them in this weekend


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So the plan is to drill the thread in the bolt as clearance straight through the tunnel then I have the position I need in the car and it's a simple installation then. I need that nut on the inside to act like a spacer so I can retain my carpet and foam and the eyelet will be in a good position. But this would be sufficient wouldn't it?


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I personally think that any injuries suffered as a result of an accident that could be big enough to make those variations on how the harnesses are fitted will be far more impacted by other factors such as shell, chassis and door impact obsorption.
I think it's things that are going to come in to the car rather than what happens from within.
Just my 2p worth.

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Yeah I know what you're saying. People have done things in so many ways. As my plates are now I know my mounting bar would give way before hand but you still have to be as safe as possible. It's just about spreading the load


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Takata only recommend using existing lap belt mounting points.

"OEM seat belt points are the only anchorages that have been 100% tested to hold the loads required for a harness system."

http://www.speedhunters.com/2014/06/takata-ask-the-expert-answers/

 

Don't forget - depending on harness you might want a HANS device (Head and Neck Support device) too?

I admit it's pretty hardcore but a bloke died on track recently from a harness crash because no HANS device.


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It's all very technical and there's so many ways to do it. Quite interesting


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Why not wrap one of the lap belts onto the existing bar by the door? Its already been designed to have a belt wrapped on to it and pretty much all 4 or 6 point systems can be either bolt or wrap mounted. Personally I would do that and think about using a conventional belt clip wrapped into the other side to attach into the existing lap belt setup that way keeping everything as close to OEM as possible.

Interested in the Transit D hooks for the shoulder belts, thanks for that Grant could you show it all mounted up in the car?

 

I bought some of these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seat-belt...102136?hash=item461b24b8b8:g:~4QAAOxy69JTBzFj
screwed them into the old seat belt fixings in the rear, one is not in line with the rest, so i had some 25mm x 6mm bar and fixed it to that, if you remove the bar beside the front seats and use that fixing for one side and for the inner (tunnel) side i drilled a hole and fixed that to a piece of 6mm thick bar that i drilled and tapped.

 

The problem with those is that harness clips are too big to go through the eye. That's why I use the D Rings.

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Mine fit great, not sure that the "D" rings are going to be as strong.

 

Some interesting information in this thread. When I looked into it a lot of people said you shouldn't run a harness unless you have a roll cage or roll over bar. The reasoning behind it is that if you roll the car over and the roof caves in you can't move your head away if you're strapped in with a harness, whereas if you've just got a standard seatbelt you can.

I'm just about to fit a 6 point harness into mine, has anyone got any pics of where they mounted the fixing point for the two crotch straps?

 

Its a fair point that I wouldn't tend to disagree with because its based in pretty solid logic. I have a race car like that which was road legal and I am preparing (very slowly) to go through a day time only running MoT again. It has a full 13 point weld in cage, seam welded shell etc. Back in 2010 I did drive the thing on the road between track and home, or garage and home etc. I was always a little wary of the cage to be honest as I have accrued so many bruises from the thing. In the Meg one benefits from having much more cabin space. In that car I put FIA spec padding on the header bar and roof boor, and then following the advice of a race scutineer down the A post tube, he reckoned he had seen people injure their legs on that bar in a crash. Getting in and out of cars with X bars in the door is proper Dukes of Hazard stuff, I have always found it an utter PITA. Its obviously the best thing for a track car but needs a lot of careful thinking because everyone I know that has gone that route (including me ) ends up with a car that basically stops being a road use car one way or another fairly quickly.

 

There is always that grey area between set FIA and MSA rules and guidelines for real racing and other people that either want an effective trackday car or one that makes them feel happy because it looks like they are 'racers'.

For the odd trackday daily road car do you really need anything more than a CG Lock. Effective lap restraint. Provides options.

So much of this harness/roll cage stuff is completely unnecessary for the intended use. Intended use being the key element. But is does make people feel better about themselves and they feel it looks good.

 

Agree with the above if your car is used 90% of the time on the road I wouldn't bother with a full cage....too much of a pain fitting it in the first place if you want to retain the interior then you have to contend with the door bars.
My car is used 95% on track and I've always wanted to have a fully stripped out car with cage and harnesses for the safety but also for the feel of the car.

 

I have used a CG lock. As long as you also have a seat that holds you in place its pretty effective, to the point in fact that I have considered fitting Pole Positions to my R26 and just using those with the standard 3 point belts and CG locks. A mate does just that in a Boxster and seems pretty happy with it, CG lock with the R26 Recaros works pretty well IMHE but of course shell seats like Pole Position et al hold you tighter again due to the much thinner padding and tighter fit around the hips.

A much bigger problem for me with the Megane is the stupid steering reach adjustment, you just can't get the thing close enough. I have considered fitting my Momo 07 to it on a boss to get it a couple of inches closer (best steering wheel ever IMHO).

 

Would this be ridiculous?

 

I asked KTR about that and they wouldn't answer. Probably they think it's fine but don't want to be sued by my fatherless children in the event I cop it.

In end I used one of these: https://bit.ly/2U9KUeY bolted in between the seat and the subframe.

 

I'm a bit late to the party with this reply but there is now a guy in Italy makes extenders for the OEM steering wheel to move it closer. I've just ordered one.

https://www.facebook.com/DailyDriverMotorsport/

 

I'm thinking of using the existing seat belt rail on the door sides and fitting these eye bolts through the subframe on the handbrake side.

If the subframe is strong enough to bolt to the floor, I can't see it being an issue holding the harness?

 

In the event of a crash the subframe doesn't have to take very much load - most of the the mass (you) is held in place by the seatbelt or harness. The subframe only has to keep the seat still.

Attaching the seatbelt to the subframe puts a lot more load on it in a crash. Also, drilling a hole through it might have an effect on its strength I suppose.

I suspect it's actually more than strong enough compared to the OEM pretensioner arrangement and I've decided to take the risk. But there's no way they'll OK it.

 

I doubt that an additional hole will cause any meaningful strength issues, certainly less than a big ktec logo carved out of the side!

A mate of mine rolled his r26 years ago and the damage was surprisingly minimal compared to what you might expect!