Please, pretty please help! Megane 225 clutch install nightmare!

Discussion in 'Mechanical - Engine, Gearbox, Exhaust etc' started by Lee Robertson, Mar 3, 2019.

  1. I randomly stopped a guy last night that was driving a megane, asked him if i could get a feel for how his clutch pedal was. His pedal 'instantly' had resistance right at the top of it's travel, my one constantly has an inch and a half of it's travel without much resistance, then it feels great all the way down.
    He told me he had hus clutch in January so i called guy that done it, he told me only way to bleed it is pump pedal 50,60 times 'without' clutch bleeder open, and ut will purge the air out itself, done this but exceeded pumping to about 200 times, still no difference.
    I prefilled slave before fitting, but done it a bit half arsed as read pumping in a dry slave cylinder could damage the seal, so half heartedly drew the slave piston in and out while the end was submerged in fluid.
  3. My clutch pedal is similar to yours - there’s a chunk of travel at the top of the pedal before you hit the resistance of the pressure plate. I had issues bleeding mine, and you soon know when air is present as the pedal either drops to the floor and won’t spring back, or the resistance point is so low that you can just tell that it won’t be disengaging fully. From what you’ve said, I don’t think air in the lines is the issue.

    It surely points towards something wrong with the clutch itself, either incorrect part (as myself and others have suggested) or something to do with your auto adjusters. But needs to come off so that it can be looked at in more detail.

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  4. I agree with your point about the adjusters, but clutch part numbers match the clutch i took off. I've still got doubts despite what my local renault dealer said, and the Renault service manual said, that you 'do' need that large self adjusting clutch fitting tool, again though, people on here have said they've fitted a self adjusting clutch without the tool!
    I don't know what to do now to be honest, im going to take this gearbox off again, but im just going to be staring at the correct clutch and flywheel for the car, fitted to the letter by the service manual!
  5. Well, this cars set two records for me, most money i've ever speent on a car and got nowhere, and the first car i've actually kicked, nice broken front wing, well, it deserved it!
    Vacuum bled the clutch, reverse bled the clutch, pressure bled the clutch now from the reservoir down(4 litres worth!) and not one bit of difference with pedal feel!! Slack for and inch and a half, then good pressure, think i've officially given up! I actually put off doing this pressure bleeding as i knew it wouldn't nake any difference, and i was right.
  6. I'm just gonna say it... even though this doesn't seem to go anywhere

    An inch and a half of travel, or any travel really, then good pressure - is absolutely not air in the system
    It's a problem with the clutch (possibly wrong one) or the slave cylinder

    Air in the system feels completely different, it feels consistently spongy but still works just like when you get air in brakes.
  7. The guy from Luk i called, and i've exchanged several emails with says the part numbers i purchased all check out with my model of car. So i don't really know what to say to that.
  8. ianplymouth

    ianplymouth RSM Club Member

    Did you change the duel mass flywheel at the same time as the clutch ???? 1st time or at all
  9. I don't want to sound pissy, but people are offering advice, and you're just skimming past it and doing your own thing. There's lots of knowledgeable people on here - take their advice. You need to get the clutch off and find out what is going on inside your bell housing. You have your old clutch, you can take measurements to compare it with, or seek guidance from folks on here who probably have the same parts kicking about in their garages. With the components off the car, you've probably got a better idea of pin pointing the issue.

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    RSPhil likes this.
  10. Yes, new Luk flywheel, clutch kit, slave cylinder, master cylinder 'and' clutch pipe from slave to bulkhead.
  11. ianplymouth

    ianplymouth RSM Club Member

    And then you replaced the clutch again, to the same flywheel ???? now i'm thinking the flywheel could be wrong, there are two types i'm sure
  12. Start the car in gear and drive it up the road and it will sort itself out if it doesnt take it to a professional because this could possibly be the longest problem in history thats went unsolved and i would like to see you solve it. If you weren’t on the other side of the water id come to your house and fix it for free.
    RsMarley and RSPhil like this.
  13. ianplymouth

    ianplymouth RSM Club Member

    He's tried to start in gear, didn't work
  14. Flywheel is same as original one i took off. If Luk tell me i've got correct one that'll do me! :-)
    I tried the starting in gear thing, all hell broke loose, smoke rose from the starter motor!
    Regarding the time this has all taken you've got to understand there have been weeks i can't even face being near it!
    Just say for example you fit a wrong flywheel and clutch kit, you would expect a problem,right? then you fit a correct flywheel and clutch kit and you get the same end result? No gears?? That's how i feel, to me that shouts it can't be the clutch but something outwith the actual clutch.
    It's like buying shoes that are way too small, your feet will hurt, you then buy the correct size shoes and your feet still hurt and you're like wtf?? Shouldn't happen.
  15. ianplymouth

    ianplymouth RSM Club Member

    but if the wrong shoes were put in the box :kissing::kissing::kissing:
  16. Knowing my luck i've probably got the wrong feet! :-)
  17. where are you based?
  18. Fife in Scotland.
  19. Ah a bit too far for me
  20. It's ok, i can move house! :-) None of the garages near me would touch this to put a clutch in it, even a local 'French car specialist' about 15 miles away wasn't interested.
  21. Missed your post, how can you say i'm ignoring people and doing my own thing? I fitted it by instruction on here and various other places, and i've bled it every way that's been suggested. In fact i've everything 'but' do things my own way, either by the Renault service manual or people on here!
    I've given up anyway, i've advertised it locally for 950.
  22. There’s a few people, myself included who have said that the issues don’t seem to stem from bleeding or anything that you could get to with the gearbox installed, and that inspecting what was fitted is going to be the only way forward. You were more interested in repeatedly quoting the part numbers being correct, or the way you’ve fitted it being correct - but without taking it back off and checking that something hasn’t been incorrectly manufactured, or fitted, you were going to keep going round in circles... which, dare I say it, is what has happened.

    Lots of folks have been very helpful, but the reality is that you were going to have to start from basics and pull it apart as there was something fundamentally wrong but no progress being made.

    I think people share your frustration of not being able to see you fix your problem and it is a shame that you’ve decided to throw in the towel and sell it.

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  23. I've got a few people interested in the car but there's something i've jyst done has made me think.
    For the last week or so, well probably longer i've really had my doubts about this new Valeo clutch master i put on, when you look at the pedal and rod going into the master the way the rod pushes into the cylinder body just doesn't naje sense, little resistance at first, then it's good.
    Just for the hell of it i pushed in the old clutch master by hand that was lying 'off' the car, just to see how it felt, and the rod feels nice and stiff right from the second you push it??
    Whereas the new one on the car is slacker than the old one at first, then stiff. I'm going to stick in old one.
  24. The thing is that when you look at an issue for so long, you seems to not see the obvious, sometimes another pair of fresh eyes help you see what you cannot because you have looked at it for so long (if you get my gist).

    Park it for a couple of weeks, then start again gearbox off, clutch off slave cylinder off, compare everything new with old to make sure it all matches in shape, fit and function, maybe measure slave cylinder height to make sure, then refit methodically and torqu it appropriately, maybe you will discover the issue, as it cannot be air in the system.

    I feel for you Lee, especially when you need the car as a daily, i am in the same position as you, had to take off my gearbox and fit a spare one i had i a week end on the drive just so i could drive the car during the week while the old gearbox was being refurbed, then swap again the week end after. Fun Time (and a lot of swearing)
  25. I can't help getting defensive here, taking breaks from things is good advice, i've done that twice already, i get that.
    Do people really think i didn't check the parts with parts taken off? Or that i have to torque things correctly? Or that i didn't check part numbers.
    Ebay is a complete headfuck when it comes to purchasing parts, their compatibility list is a joke!
    I researched doing this job for a month before doing it and thoroughly got the whole procedure into my head before i touched a bolt!
    When i fit a clutch, following every letter from the Renault service manual, what can go wrong??
    I think the best point i made was if you fit a 'wrong' flywheel , then fit all correct parts the second time, would you expect the same end result twice, no gears?? No!
    That's the thing that niggles me most.
  26. and me, unfortunately something is definitely wrong otherwise gears would be able to engage.
    Anyway we are only trying to help you here so lets not escalate on who did what and so on, lets concentrate on your issue that we all want resolved and be friendly to each other.

    Just as a reminder, did you say that gear engage with engine turned off but when engine is turned on they do not. is that statement correct?
  27. Yes that's correct, jack front wheels off the ground, start car up, it will fly right up the box no problem, revving freely and the wheels are accelerating as they should.
    Car also goes through all gears no problem with all four wheels on ground and engine off.
  28. I don't think myself or others are suggesting you haven't checked parts, but it could be that something has been manufactured incorrectly or has the wrong part number stamped onto it... given the long running issues, we're all having a punt at the most likely cause of the issue based around what work you have carried out.

    I read your comment before about the car seeming to work ok when jacked up, but not when lowered to the ground, and discounted carrying out any tests on it as your description still points towards the clutch not disengaging fully. You could test this by starting the car in gear (probably advisable to try this first with the wheels off the ground) and keeping the clutch pedal pressed. If the front wheels start turning (which they may do due to the circulation of oil in the gearbox) you should be able to press the brakes and the engine won't stall. Worthwhile checking this out and reporting back as to what happened.

    If I'm right in saying, when you drop the car down and start it, you can't select a gear with the engine running?

    If you can do the above test without the engine stalling, there's no reason why you can't do the same when on the ground (I would be using some very good chocks though, just in case!). Try starting in gear and releasing the clutch - can you detect a biting point?
  29. I remember when i was sent the wrong flywheel with that fitted wheels spun like hell all the time, even out of gear(i don't mean natural inertia making them spin) This time when i fitted correct flywheel and fired it up with the wheels off the ground it didn't do that, wheels were still, thought i had cracked it,but no.
    From memory i remember just for the hell of it starting car up with just one wheel touching the deck, it got gears fine?
    I did once put it in gear with front wheels off ground then dropped it,then fired it up in gear with clutch down and there was smoke and car wouldn't turn off lol, must have been the starter i think.
    I'll try what you said.
  30. Car stalled instantly when i pressed the brake with the car in gear running, with the front wheels up.
  31. Was that with the clutch depressed?

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  32. Out of the dozens of people who have tried to help, in the back of my mind something has niggled me, there is only 'one' person said something to me that's styck with me, he was absolutely adamant, cocky about it saying you 'cannot' fit one of tgese self adjystibg pressure plates without the large three sparred sac fitting tool, and i'm beginning to think he's right!
    Renault service manual said you don't need it, people on here said you don't need, Haynes manual doesn't mention it, local Renault service department said you don't need it! But this one person said if you don't use this tool, yourclutch won't work, simple as! He said take box off, use tool and that would be that!
    I have heard this tool is only for fitting the clutch cover, which is 'already' preset, and this tool makes sure this preset adjustment isn't disturbed while fitting!
    But, i have also seen people using it to set the pre-adjustment 'while' fitting?? My one was preset from Luk, all i had to do, seemingly, was fit it gradually tightening the pressure bolts diagonally opposite each other, until up to torque!
  33. Yes, it stalled with the clutch in.
  34. Honestly this thread makes my head hurt

    There's tons of us that have had clutches fitted with no tool - no problem
    You phoned the guy who fitted mine, who's done hundreds, and never used a tool - no problem
    Everyone keeps saying it's a mechanical fault, a miss-match between clutch and slave cylinder, or clutch and flywheel

    But you just keep bleeding the clutch - must have gone through half the worlds supply of Dot 4 by now, and focusing on the pedal feel.

    The pedal moves hydraulic fluid down a line, which in turn moves the slave cyclinder arm, which in turn presses on the pressure forks on the clutch release plate.
    If any of that doesn't match up or isn't installed properly the clutch will have a deadspot because you're effectively moving the slave cylinder arm and it's nowhere near the clutch release plate

    I 100% think this is not going to get resolved with you swapping clutch pedals, bleeding, reverse bleeding, bleeding with the car upside down in a pressure tank - you need to take the box off

    I've had my clutch done, with new flywheel, with new release plate, with no special tool - works fine.
    I've had the line off, drained all the fluid, bled from dry, just by pumping the pedal with a pressure bleed attached to the reservoir - bled fine on the driveway in 10 minutes flat.

    For me it's absolutely an issue with the clutch kit or the flywheel.

    Couldn't you at least stick a small camera in a hole in the box and see if the slave cylinder is making contact with the release plate?
  35. Ok you’ve confirmed my thoughts (and others!), your clutch is definitely not disengaging. You have a pedal (by the sounds of what you have described), so it isn’t a bleeding issue. It *could* be related to the master cylinder, but given that this is a very simple component that you’ve replaced with new, and you have pedal feel, I’m confident this isn’t your issue.

    As Phil has said, your box needs to come off. The problem has to be something inside there.

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  36. I know it's difficult to keep track, but I've already mentioned the slave cylinder is extending and depressing the pressure plate fingers until they are nearly flat, so the slave cylinder is 'sort of' doing it's job, in my mind, considering there are 'hundreds' of people out there saying these are i pig to bleed, i pictured it as one bit of trapped air still to get shifted, then the slave cylinder would get that little bit more extension then disengage clutch! Make sense?
    Another thing that was maybe a long shot was the service manual says not to grease input shaft, so i didn't, but the shaft would have to be pretty buggered to stop the friction plate moving. The main reason i decided to sell was Luk told me clutch, flywheel was correct, and someone on here gave me another site to confirm this, i just don't think i'd be able to see, or realise what was wrong to be honest, i feel i done nothing wrong, friction disc could be manufactured slightly too thick, or whatever, i just can't be arsed doing this all again.
  37. Any believe me, you're head doesn't hurt as much as mine! :-)
  38. Just a reminder as well that the clutch and flywheel on the car just now are identical to the original ones i took off.
  39. People saying they're hard to bleed - I have no idea. They're just not.

    Greasing the shaft is nonsense. It'll just spray everywhere in the box. This isn't the 90s anymore.
  40. I actually agree they are easy to bleed, i've always got air out easy, except the fact i had replaced so much of the system i thought there was just a blob of air trapped somewhere awkward.
    I never really like how the short hose from the reservoir to the bulkhead looked trapped between the airfilter housing and the bulkhead for example.
    I actually have another new clutch here but whoever buys it can have it, i just feel this crap is going to happen again putting in another clutch, i couldn't have been more careful! Honestly!

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