Please, pretty please help! Megane 225 clutch install nightmare!

Discussion in 'Mechanical - Engine, Gearbox, Exhaust etc' started by Lee Robertson, Mar 3, 2019.

  1. This clutch install started last November, i think. First time i was supplied the wrong flywheel for the car, so that went tits up, couldn't get a gear!
    Took box off again, fitted new flywheel, new slave cylinder, clutch etc, the bloody slave cylinder burst spewing it's guts during bleeding! So, whole lot off again, fitted new clutch again, can't get a bloody gear again, this is unbelievable and is breaking my heart!
    Front of the car jacked up, start car, all gears select all the way up the box, put car on deck, can't get a gear???
    All that happens is putting forward pressure on the gearstick and the car creeps forward, that's it!
    What in the hell is wrong with this bloody clutch, it's a nightmare. I've been so careful all through this install, i'm not getting it.
    When i put wrong flywheel in, with car running front wheels up wheels would spin really quick in neutral, it's not doing that now with correct flywheel, so i thought i had cracked it!
    Only miraculously odd thing i can remember happening, was second time i dropped box something was stopping it, one of the gear cables had clicked back on and maybe stretched as i was bringing box down? It takes a fair bit of pressure to click it on, but it went on itself, twice i think that happened, made me chuckle.
  2. Also slave cylinder is fully pushing clutch plate fingers flat, clutch pedal feel is good, first inch and a half no feel then perfect from then on down.
  3. So nobody has fitted a clutch to a Megane here? Ok, i'll try another forum.
  4. ianplymouth

    ianplymouth RSM Club Member

    Hi Lee
    Its a bit hard to try and work out what is wrong with your car, i have noticed that there are different flywheels fitted to the 225 and R26, although i have never done a clutch on an R26, also the 250 has a slightly different flywheel as well.

    Can you get the gears with the engine off, what happens if you push the start button with it in gear.???

    i am sure that the covers are the same, although the plate is different, the drive plate on the 250 can't be fitted the wrong way around, but the 225 one can.
    225 and 250 flywheel, clutch cover 225 F1/IMG_20161212_141315_zpsfeg7aqjo.jpg

    drive plates 225 F1/IMG_20161212_141415_zps646t5lug.jpg
  5. The second photo you posted there showing the clutch friction plates from above, the ones on the right are what i have fitted.
    All gears select perfectly with the engine off and all four wheels on the deck.
    This is my big question though, why has 99% of the the people, and the research i done before the job tell me i did 'not' need a self adjusting clutch fitting tool, yet 'one' person told me categorically you 'can' t' fit an SAC without one?
    I've read the fitting tool pretensions the pressure plate while fitting, what??? So, this pretensioning is 'AS WELL AS' the self adjusting mechanism being set out the box from Luk??
    Why doesn't the renault service manual, the haynes manual, my local Renault tech, the guy i spoke to from Schaeffer(Luk uk) tell me this??
  6. HI, being a diesel it is a bit different, but a clutch is a clutch, i changed mine on M9R engine and bought a complete kit including flywheel from LuK and not self adjustment tool required, fitted straight from the box to engine, refitted gearbox, bled the slave cylinder, (took me 4 attempt over 2 weekends) and jobs a goodden, all worked, i checked all gear would go in with engine running on axle stands or not running (still on axle stand LOL) and that was it.

    I am struggling to understand your issue, is your clutch disc fitted the correct way round?
  7. See if i had £1 for everytime someone has asked me that! "Is the clutch disc the right way round??" i'd be a very rich man!
    Yes it's in the right way! :-)
    I'd love to know what magical thing this self adjusting clutch fitting tool must do, that one person that told me not using the tool = non functioning clutch was so confident and cocky about it, he just said trust me, take the box off, use the tool and it would work!
    But i never listened to him because he was the only person said it.
  8. ianplymouth

    ianplymouth RSM Club Member

    I fitted a LUK clutch kit to my 265 recently, no problem with fitting and its operation and i fitted one to my 225 quite a while ago now, fitted straight out of the box, only the aligning tool was used.
  9. ianplymouth

    ianplymouth RSM Club Member

    Years ago clutch's used to have clips on them that you removed once the cover plate was all torqued up, although i have not seen this sort of thing for years now.

    Looking back at my picture of the clutch plates, i'm sure the one on the right is the 250 setup, can double check tonight when i'm at the workshop.
  10. Well come and fit mine then! lol
  11. Well, to make things even more confusing, this sac fitting tool which seemingly has the purpose, while fitting the clutch, of not upsetting the clutch adjustment mechanism that has been set prior, this guy on this video below compresses the clutch fingers on the pressure plate with the tool, then sets the auto adjusters?? Wtf!
    Never seen that before, i haven't a clue what to do now.
    To set the self adjusters you have to compress the clutch fingers, spin inner pressure plate around to compress the three green adjuster springs, then you release pressure on clutch fingers, this is what Luk do at the factory!
    What the guy in this video is doing is basically undoing this procedure, then doing it again whole installing?
  12. Indeed, Luk Clutch come pre set from factory so no need for you to redo,
    this procedure is only if you remove your clutch and need to reinstall it but who in his right mind would take a box out and not change the clutch at the same time to avoid retaking the box out 6 month later...

    this is what garages (spanner monkeys) do when customer whom has no knoledge of cars whatsoever does not want to pay a hefty bills
  13. Cars been off the road now for 5 months with this, it's my daily driver!
    I'm just getting conflicting stories everywhere regarding whether i use the tool or not, renault service manual says no, Haynes says you don't need it, local Renault dealer says no, well why in the hell have i done it twice without the tool and i can't get a gear?
    I followed the renault service manual procedure exactly!
  14. If your on FB, go to the RS Megane page, ask on there, there are some really helpful lads on there, might be worth ringing Mark Black at Midlands Renault, he's also really helpful, hope you get it sorted.
  15. I called my local renault dealer before i set out on this saga, the tech from there told me you don't need the fitting tool.
    Then i just called a less local renault dealer and they said you definetly need the tool, oh joy.
  16. Lee i fell your pain, i can garrantee that if your clutch was brand new unopened box then you do not need the tool, i've done mine back 12 month ago and it worked first time, Have you check that you bled the slave cylinder enough, as if some air are in the pipeline then the slave might move just enough to come in contact with the clutch but not enough to allow gears to engage when engine is on,

    Also you could try to see if the gears engage by matching rpm to see if it is a clutch issue or gearbox issue,

    Another lads on here had similar issues and in the end he had his clutch pedal master cylinder changed because it failed.
  17. ianplymouth

    ianplymouth RSM Club Member

    By looking at that video it looks like you need to do that if you change the clutch plate but not the cover, then that resets the cover for the thicker plate.
  18. Does a 1.9 megane dci mk2 clutch kit (plate and friction disc) fit my 2005 rs225?
  19. ianplymouth

    ianplymouth RSM Club Member

    I am not really sure on this, i think there was something on this here somewhere but i thought it was the 2.0l diesel one
  20. 1.9dci is very similar as R26r clutch i believe and fit R26 (230) not sure for 225, maybe somebody who swapped it for the 1.9dci can enlight us
  21. Euro car parts have the same part number for a 2005 1.9 dci and a 2005 rs225! 637746170, slave cylinders are different though.
  22. to be taken with a pinch of salt, check for actual part numbers
  23. ianplymouth

    ianplymouth RSM Club Member

    Don't be too worried about the picture, it's a generic pic, its the part numbers that are more important.
  24. Ah ok, so part numbers 'are' the same then, i just happened to get a 1.9 dci one cheaper, plus i was told they were the same, so that's why i fitted it. Plus nailing down 'exact' 225 stuff on Ebay is difficult!
    Interestingly guy from midlands renault told me yesterday told me the pressure plates are not the same!!
    I just seem to get so much conflicting information!
    One renault dealer says one thing, one says another, one service manual says don't do this, someone on a forum says do it.! So, at the moment i have a 225 sitting with the correct clutch and flywheel in it, the adjusters were set by Luk out of the box and i can't get a gear!
    So, with that information it seems to come back to a question i asked earlier, does the inch and a half or so free travel i have at the too of the clutch pedal 'really' making the difference between getting a gear or not?
    Are the clutches that fussy? Pedal feels great, you wouldn't be aware of the slight delay in pedal feel if i got anyone on here to try it!
    You would have to 'really' be paying attention.
  25. ianplymouth

    ianplymouth RSM Club Member

    There shouldn't be any free play at the peddle, okay maybe 1/2 inch max, did you try to start it when in gear
  26. Yep, just jumps forwards. The slave cylinders is pushing the pressure plate fingers.
    Only reason i wasn't two concerned about this freeplay is that i've read stories of renault dealers sending their customer away after a clutch install with a crap pedal feel saying, it's ok Love, just drive it and it will improve, and it has! :-)
    If it was 'thinking' about going into gear i'd feel a bit better it just needs a slight bleed, but the gearsticks solid! with the clutch pressed.
  27. I replied to your threads last year - I still have no idea

    You don't need an alignment tool - it's only needed so the gearbox will go back on - if it's back on it's aligned.
    You don't need an install tool or tensioning tool - they come pre-tensioned

    You did mention last year that you mucked about with the tension though by moving all the springs.
    Did you undo that?

    I would have taken it to a garage 4 months ago tbh
  28. Yes i know they come pretensioned. When you say i was 'mucking about' with first clutch i had in this, i was merely setting the adjustment springs as they 'weren' t' set! The clutch must have got a bump in transit.So i had to set it up before installing!
    The self adjust clutch fitting tool(the large three pronged jobbie) i've seen described by a seller
    has one purpose, and that is to install the 'preset' pressure plate without disturbing the preset!(but the video i inserted above was a first, he sets the preset 'on' the car??
    I actually went to the extent of buying a complete new again to rule out a faulty clutch kit, which is what i have installed just now.
    So currently correct flywheel and correctly preset by Luk clutch are installed, but can't get a gear!
  29. ianplymouth

    ianplymouth RSM Club Member

    it can only be the slave cylinder then, if all is correct with the plate and the cover, yes you might see the fingers moving but it can't be enough travel.

    When you tightened up the pressure plate did you see the fingers sink in and you did tighten them every 3rd bolt just a bit going around and around and not all at once each.
  30. Yes i tightened al the bolts quarter turn at a time, one at a time opposite each other moving around the plate, then torqued to correct value.
    Your the second person that's asked if i looked at the fingers moving while tightened the bolts, i didn't notice that, wasn't paying attention,sorry.
    I'm going to reverse bleed it tomorrow, tends to shift air better.
  31. ianplymouth

    ianplymouth RSM Club Member

    if you have some peddle wedge it down over night and let it up slowly in the morning.
  32. Done.
  33. Well that never made a difference, i didn't think it would, i know this car too well!! :-)
    This is really doing my head in! Do i really want to take this gearbox off again if i have the correct flywheel and correctly set clutch kit on it?
    Slave cylinder, to me is definetly pushing the clutch fingers flat enough to do something!
  34. The people on here who say they installed the clutch without the tool in my video above has really thrown me through a loop and confused me, two Renault dealers and Luk have now mentioned this to me you have to use one, well one dealer said yes, another no!?
    Guy from Midlands Renault says he doesn't use one.
    I'm dying to get this car on the road again, and for those suggesting you shoukd have taken it to a garage, they weren't interested, even my local 'Renault specialist' hadn't done one and wasn't keen.
  35. I had my clutch, flywheel and slave cylinder replaced at midlands renault - no tool needed - works perfectly

    Since then I took the slave cylinder hydraulic line off, binned it, fitted a braided one - re-bled by literally just hooking up a pressure bleeder to the tank, and pumping the pedal a ton of times - worked perfectly

    I honestly think your problem has to be wrong clutch, wrong flywheel or knackered slave cylinder.
  36. I've still to reverse bleed the clutch to get rid of slight play at top of pedal. Flywheel, plate, disc, slave cylinder are all new, in fact i've renewed the slave cylinder everytime i've had the box off,just to know it's bang on.
    I'm glad to hear this special tool isn't needed, that makes me think there's still air trapped in the line, incidentally, whole of my clutch line is new too, even new master.
  37. Well that was interesting, another hour of my life wasted. Reverse bled it, put a whole litre of fluid through it. During this procedure i just had one side of the car lifted, so one front wheel(fwd) on the ground. Fired car up, brilliant, it slotted into gear!
    Excitedly put all four wheels back on the deck again, fired car up,back to no gears as usual, and, interestingly the pedal now has more play in it than before, fantastic!
  38. I just read an online technical car data site which i've subscribed to,and it has a 'technical service bulletin' section for the rs225,out of curiousity i clicked on it,and strangely enough first thing that showed was a heading entitled'inability to disengage clutch and engage gears'and guess what the 'only' solution it had to this was?,grease the input shaft splines???But the feckin Renault service manual i had said to specifically 'not' grease the bloody shaft!!
    i'm going to be extremely pissed off if once again the service manually has spoon fed me bollocks!!
  39. I’ve been reading this thread to see if I could offer any useful opinion, but it certainly sounds like a head-scratcher! I think you need to go back to basics to test the individual components. There is clearly a problem with the clutch not disengaging, realistically this can only be down to an issue with the pressure plate, slave cylinder failure or air in the line. My first port of call would be to test each individually to eliminate them.

    Can you get the box off and test the disengagement? I’ll be honest, I’ve not done it myself, but in theory you could rig something up that could press against the release bearing (similar to the tool you liked earlier) and you will know if the friction plate is releasing fully. A new clutch should disengage quickly, so I wouldn’t expect the pressure plate fingers to move far before it freed the friction plate. I can’t see how grease on the input shaft is going to make any difference to be honest, if the bearing slides freely, the grease would serve no other purpose surely?

    Something else maybe worth doing is taking the clutch back to where you got it from and comparing with a brand new item. There could be a chance that it was supplied wrong and it is too shallow and therefore not disengaging fully. Or maybe compare with a new or used Renault-supplied item. I’m sure someone in here could help with some depth measurements.

    Other than that, if that all works out, I’d try a new slave and make sure it is definitely fully bled before installation, as at least you know that any air that is present in the clutch line afterwards won’t be in the part you can’t get to!

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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