Nurburgring 2017 prices

You insured?

 

Just curious as your profile says Netherlands, and didn't know if you insurance over there covered TF days

In the UK it doesn't, so in theory around 99.9% of the UK cars there aren't properly insured

 

Insurance will cover as it's an open toll road, 100% you will get black listed after it though.

UK offers plenty trackday insurance policies

 

Most if not all standard UK car insurance companies DON'T cover you on the Nordschleife.
It may be a toll road but they aren't stupid, and if you read the small print in your policy you'll usually find it stipulates it doesn't cover rallies,time trials and laps on the Nordschleife etc

 

it was higher up on my insurance policy cover limitations, 2nd line i think

 

That's why i said you guys have dedicated trackday insurance policies

 

Which only apply to closed trackdays, not tourist time.

Anyway, nice to see the new prices, cheers op.

 

If you search you'll find.

 

N

No you won't. No UK insurers will cover third party on TF. Which is probably the one a UK reg car needs. Unless you can enlighten us, as I am happy to be wrong.

 

i'll ask my mate

 

Keith michaels PLC, you'll need to get your car insured with them for the year though.

Also it will be about £100 a day at the ring

 

Cheers. Who is the UW?
£100 for what though ? Third party ? Why would you have to pay extra ? It's not a track day.

 

I took out a separate insurance the first time i went to the ring, it was a two day trip, the cost was about £250 for the first day and £50 for the second, ask why so much difference, they said we recon if you don't crash on the first day you should be okay on the second
I think it was through Moris http://www.moris.co.uk/Track-day-insurance

 

You trying to be funny? You asked, i answered

 

You're probably more likely to have an "incident" on a TF day than trackday tbh lol

 

Hiya - I spoke to Keith Michael PLC today and 2 other specialist brokers - they all confirmed that you CAN'T buy third party liability on TF days on a UK reg car, that market doesn't exist. For clarity I am talking about third party liability, not damage to one's car, which is the least of anyone's concerns on TF day compared to 3rd party.

 

I run several cars on Nuer (fun and competition). As Nick just said, there are NO UK insurance companies or brokers that will underwrite TFs. There are a few rumours on different forums that are factually incorrect.

 

Correct

Unfortunately people think going to do TF means they're covered from "track day cover" and they aren't

Insurance companies will pay out for third party but as you're in breach of contract, they can come back and reclaim all the costs from you

 

Think i'll have to inform my mate on that front then!

 

Is there anyone in the UK that covers third party liability on track days? I'm not just meaning for trackdays at the Nurburgring but also for UK trackdays. Maybe I've not looked thoroughly enough but I don't think I've ever come across such a thing.

 

I don't think so because by definition on a track day there is no third party liability, as the waiver that everyone signs exonerates from that (the same applies to a Ring TD of course, but not TF). Having said that, there has been very rare third party litigation despite the waiver, arguing negligence or intent, but I am not sure this market is big enough for anyone to start underwriting that risk, I don't know. It's kind of a niche within the niche !

 

Nick, the cases that you refer to have shown that one cannot waive TP in case of negligence or intend. Meaning that if someone crashes into me and I get injured, because he failed to maintain his brakes or because he doesn't obey TD rules (overtaking on left or others) there is a strong chance that said person will be made liable, irrespective of the cheapo print out we all sign ever time we go on track...

 

Back on topic - surely they'll let us use up our cards from this year in 2017? Got 3 laps left.

 

Jamie, please be careful sharing this sort of information without sharing the detailed background. These sort of decisions are made on a case by case situation and are definitely not a reliable precedent. There were a few U.K. judgements that favoured the insured party rather than the insurer, true, but at least as many cases were lost in the same period. I would not rely on said judgement in case of an accident on Nuer that involves a TP, nor should anyone else.

 

Andrew's annoyed me with his comments on this, because in an already misunderstood concept, he's sought to suggest it's "OK"...

... when in fact, it's not.

I do know of one driver, for example, who had a crash and was pursued by the insurance company. He went to the ombudsman, they said "you have to pay it", and he didn't go to court because he didn't fancy his chances.

So there's an example of it happening, but just not being registered through the courts.

Simply because there hasn't been a test *case*, does not mean that suddenly insurers aren't reclaiming costs from people who have had a crash.

With regards to the other court case, that was completely unrelated as far as I'm concerned. It involved agricultural vehicles and the key phrase is, "being used for its normal function".

Are you going to stand up in court and say that cars being driven round a prepared course (as the Nurburgring has be ruled to be by the UK Ombudsman), most of which has no speed limits, round and round again on a paid-for bit of road is "normal function" of a car?

I think you're on seriously thin ground there. Bottom line - does it "feel right"? It doesn't to me. So I don't think it would "feel right" to a judge and/or jury.


Further, this is NOT insurance law we're talking about now, this is basic contract law. Your contract *explicitly* states you're not to drive on the Nurburgring (and if it doesn't list it explicitly, it'll say prepared course, and the Ombudsman ruling still stands that they view the ring as a prepared course)

If you drive on the ring then you are in breach of contract. Simple. Therefore you're liable for those costs.

Whether it's unlawful to exclude the ring is another story - and there has been no test case to prove that there's any way you can make an insurance company cover the Nurburgring.

When you say, "not so sure I'd like to test out the above though"... that's *exactly* what you're doing every time you drive the ring

It's not about whether you stack your car - you're a competent and experienced driver, it's unlikely to be your error. It's about you causing being liable for damage caused to others in the event of rotten luck. So *IF* bad luck comes up - whether it's your car dropping coolant or just a situation you can't avoid (but are deemed liable for in the eyes of german traffic law), then you are going to be that test case *IF* the monies involved are such that you need to go and get a lawyer

Here's a case in point... and when I was insured for TF

I came flying round miss hit miss once. There had been an accident, maybe a minute before hand. No yellows. As I come out of the final right hand kink, all kinds of stuff is in front of me

I hit the brakes, the car in front is already braking - I dive to the grass to avoid him, narrowly avoiding a scrape with the tarmac

Upon reflection, that was a stupid thing to do, even though it was instinctive. What if someone had exited a car and been on the grass? What if there was a stationary car I couldn't see?

Under traffic law I'd have been deemed to be going too fast - couldn't stop in distance I could see, probably wrong side of road yada yada

At that stage, even though I was insured, I stopped doing TF as I didn't want that kind of stuff on my conscience.


Now, I'd like to do TF again, but I'd probably do 9.30-10min laps and just soak it all up. I certainly wouldn't drive anywhere close to the limit at a number of blind sections.


Anyway - i'm not preaching. I'm not saying "don't do TF". I just want everyone to be fully aware that if they were to have "a problem" - defined by a significant bill that causes financial pain - that it's probably not going to be because they were driving too fast or whatever. It will be unforeseen circumstances that are unavoidable and that they end up in.

If you know that, but choose to do it anyway, then that's fine by me. It's the people who don't realise it, or who refuse to acknowledge it, that I'm trying to point the risks out to.

 

Great news about the 2017 prices tho eh [emoji16][emoji16][emoji16][emoji16]

 

With those prices I'll be signing up with someone like a SkyLimits track day for 650 euro and having a quite track for the day to hammer round in RSR's Meganes and let someone else cover my wear and tear.

I've never taken insurance out on the Nurburg. Some companies do actually cover you but it's so expensive I'd taken my chances and driven 90% of my limit and hoped for the best.

Having done in the last 3 years 3 full track days and around 10 tourist events amounting to over 200 laps at least I'm probably quids in if shit hit the fan now anyway.

A friend stacked his RS3 hard and it was near a 30,000 euro repair bill, track closure, recovery, ambulance, hospital fee (his insurance didn't cover motorsport / racing) and that didn't include the car. If you take the barriers as well remember even section everyone refers to is actually 3 layers higher so 'x' that bill my 3 on barrier repairs.

Old prices are these + VAT

• Base fee for attendance of armco truck: €150
• Removing damaged armco: €10/metre (x2 or x3 or x4 for multiple-height sections)
• Replacement armco: €31/metre (x2 or x3 for double/triple height)
• Removing damaged armco posts: €5.10 each
• Replacing armco post: €39 each
• Safety car attendance: €82 per 30 mins (car + 2 people)
• Circuit closure: €1,350 per hour
• Recovery truck: €500 (inc VAT)

If they make repairs and reopen track but then carrier out additional repairs overnight you also pay the 'circuit closure fee' whilst they carry this out at night.

Basically you could contest it but there argument would be okay we'll just close it during day then and still charge you that fee anyway.

Record bill for just armco is £15,000 apparently bet that was a hell of a smash!

 

Done a track day there. Good and much safer. But theres nothing like TF for me.

 

@EAndy, you are still not insured in one of RSR's cars, i did a track day in a R26r a couple of years ago and they said there was a 18k euro excess, you pay for the damage to the car, they didn't mention anything else about crashing though

Track days are great there, no bikes, trucks, coaches, vans etc it was so quite when i did it i think on one lap i saw 2 cars, i have also done 2 TF's and you have to have eyes everywhere.

I think the main problem is there are some if not most, are trying to better there or others times, circumstances change there in an instant and instead of binning that lap they try to make the time back up, i think in the 12 odd laps i have done there was only one or two i would say were okay laps, the others were waiting for slower cars to move over or staying out of the way when some lunatic thinks he is on a winning lap.

Just my 2p worth

 

Back on topic... (maybe move the whole insurance conversation to a new thread?).

Any unused laps from the previous two years can be credited via the new website/app by entering the number from the old lap card which you then get credited to the app.

Top ups are done by "buying" credits online to add to your account.

Point to watch out for:
The app has a QR code that you present to QR "readers" at the barriers. If someone can scan or copy "your" QR code then they can use up your laps!!!! Therefore I would suggest you keep "your" QR code safe and secure from prying eyes!! This is a VERY insecure system of ticketing.

Year passes will be given a card to scan with open credit to that card holder only.

New website, needs you to register and open an account is here.

://www.greenhelldriving.nuerburgring.de

 

Good to hear. Saved 3 laps as it was just too mental to do them all this year. Did 4 and quit while we were still in one piece! Others weren't as lucky (august).

 

I wonder how many Year Card QR code/'s will somehow get copied and used for open lap's by folks????