New Megane Racing Series

Aerofoil · Jul 12, 2017

Sunnylun - that race series was flagged up to me at Cadwell. I've no idea who's behind it. It's not your car, the mods talked about are proposed by them.

sunnylunn · Jul 12, 2017

Ok then

NJH · Jul 12, 2017

Well thinking about it a bit more a race series based on the mk2 meg RS has one very big benefit, the cars are relatively plentiful either as complete or part donors. Cheap OEM parts as well. Its one of those things which matters a lot to some folks.

Aerofoil on the C1 thing I am working on convincing the Mrs we need a short break to west wales in a fortnights time so I can pop in to Pembrey and see em racing. They seem to have team drives available for a lot of events so renewing my licence and diving into it this year even is seriously tempting. I was thinking about just doing some track days this year and then maybe racing again next year but if I don't have to muck about with my own car it changes the whole nature of the question for me.

Aerofoil · Jul 12, 2017

massivewangers said: ↑

Once again, I see what you are saying, but this series doesn't appear to be trying to emulate the TT from what I can see. Based on the limited information available thus far, it looks to be quite tightly controlled. Power is capped, along with engine modifications. Suspension changes are severely limited, as are brakes and transmission. Looking back at it, the spoiler that so bothered you; the wording suggests as much as anything that, if someone starts with an R26.R, they won't have to remove the spoiler. What's the harm in that? Did they need to mention so early on? Perhaps not, but hardly a massive issue. In your earlier posts, you were claiming that a CAE was pointless, but now it could shave tenths off on each lap? Mr. Consistency there...
Click to expand...

Regarding the Regs, power is capped but allows remaps. Big mistake for policing the rules initially. Been covered by other posters. The Mk3 Megane is already above the power limits stated. No parity defined for the 265/275. Transmission allows a gripper diff. Big and expensive mod. All will want it to be competitive. The spoiler is a side issue and shows the priorities are skewed. More important issues should be covered. CAE shifter? again this is a new series so why included it, it forces everyone to want fit one for its perceived advantages. That's why it's a waste of time for this proposal. Quote... 'Affordable racing'.

massivewangers said: ↑

I understand that it's competitive, I understand that a perceived lack of regulatory parity will get people's backs up but, you can make the regs as strict as you like, budget will still find a way to shine through. It might even be as simple as that some people can afford to replace tyres every ten minutes, while others use them for three meetings. Motorsport is often about who can subtly screw over the regulations without getting caught. You will never stop that. Not ever. As I said, the ability of each driver is likely to make far more difference to who wins than the difference in lap time between a car with a Renault diff or a Gripper one.
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Sure, budget and the ability to play the rules to your advantage is all part of the racing game however, a gripper diff will make a big difference, so it for basically sets a baseline standard for the most capable car. You have to remember the proposal is for affordable racing. People are put off joining a series where the donor car is an expensive conversion. Also, not many racers like coming second to a chap that has a better modified car in the same class. I don't think you appreciate that. You also have to remember this is a competitive game, lots of race series exist at all levels of budget so when you propose a new one you are competing with established and successful existing series. Ask yourself why should you commit a large budget to build a Megane for a series with no track record and rules that seem disjointed? Risky and difficult to quantify. They are more likely to go for something established in the Tin Top game. This is not backed by a major player, it's not MSV or Renault running it for example.

massivewangers said: ↑

On the track day argument; yes it's a big step to move from track days to racing but plenty of people do it. The leap from a well-prepared track car to a race car is not very big at all. Safety gear can be had at a decent price if you buy wisely too. The event costs are high in comparison to track days but, let's face it, there are plenty of people out there with the disposable income.
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Of course thousands have gone from trackdays to racing, no problem, pick a series, buy a car, sort your license and off you go. This is different though as its a proposal for a completely new race series. The requirement and experience to get that going and sustain it has already been covered.

Aerofoil · Jul 12, 2017

NJH said: ↑

Well thinking about it a bit more a race series based on the mk2 meg RS has one very big benefit, the cars are relatively plentiful either as complete or part donors. Cheap OEM parts as well. Its one of those things which matters a lot to some folks.

Aerofoil on the C1 thing I am working on convincing the Mrs we need a short break to west wales in a fortnights time so I can pop in to Pembrey and see em racing. They seem to have team drives available for a lot of events so renewing my licence and diving into it this year even is seriously tempting. I was thinking about just doing some track days this year and then maybe racing again next year but if I don't have to muck about with my own car it changes the whole nature of the question for me.
Click to expand...

Ref the C1, yep, the arrive and drive option is such a big player, particularly if you can drop in this year for a couple of tasters and then maybe set something up more solid for next year. Also the thought of knocking out a 24 hour would be such a strong pull. Pembrey would be interesting, just as much for the racing as finding out the details on how teams are playing the budgets and any arrive and drive aspects.

massivewangers · Jul 12, 2017

Aerofoil said: ↑

Regarding the Regs, power is capped but allows remaps. Big mistake for policing the rules initially. Been covered by other posters. The Mk3 Megane is already above the power limits stated. No parity defined for the 265/275. Transmission allows a gripper diff. Big and expensive mod. All will want it to be competitive. The spoiler is a side issue and shows the priorities are skewed. More important issues should be covered. CAE shifter? again this is a new series so why included it, it forces everyone to want fit one for its perceived advantages. That's why it's a waste of time for this proposal. Quote... 'Affordable racing'.
Click to expand...

Easy enough to police if you have a rolling road at the venue. Anyone above 260bhp is out. Does it add complexity? Perhaps, but it's not insurmountable. As you say, the stated rules don't cover the 265/275, but they haven't released the full regs, so you're making a negative assumption. Seeing as the core market will be the 225/230, it might not be much of an issue. The spoiler thing doesn't seem like a side issue, but a non-issue. As I say, perhaps they included the quickshift (which could be the bargain basement modified shifter as well as the CAE) as it doesn't exclude people with modified cars who want to make the jump from track days to racing.

Is a Gripper diff pricey? Yes, but given the relative shortage of R26 gearboxes, it opens up another option. Unless you ban the R26, thus alienating a good chunk of your potential target market? It's a difficult balancing act. As I have said twice now, at club level, driver skills makes every bit as much as car quality, especially the difference in performance between the Renault diff and a gripper one.

Aerofoil said: ↑

Sure, budget and the ability to play the rules to your advantage is all part of the racing game however, a gripper diff will make a big difference, so it for basically sets a baseline standard for the most capable car. You have to remember the proposal is for affordable racing. People are put off joining a series where the donor car is an expensive conversion. Also, not many racers like coming second to a chap that has a better modified car in the same class. I don't think you appreciate that. You also have to remember this is a competitive game, lots of race series exist at all levels of budget so when you propose a new one you are competing with established and successful existing series. Ask yourself why should you commit a large budget to build a Megane for a series with no track record and rules that seem disjointed? Risky and difficult to quantify. They are more likely to go for something established in the Tin Top game. This is not backed by a major player, it's not MSV or Renault running it for example.
Click to expand...

You're right, it does set a baseline standard that some people will try to adhere to. But said standard has to be set somewhere. That standard could have been set to allow sequential boxes and big turbos. It could have been set to allow nothing at all. They have made their choice and I don't think it is an entirely unreasonable balance. You're also right in that people don't like a series where someone has a better car but, guess what, that's racing. Someone will always have more money and a better car than you. Tough shit ultimately.

Once again, I see what you're saying, but any new series takes a risk. So what if it isn't backed by a major player? What motorsport needs to do is encourage people to get involved in organising. It needs to support new clubs, new series and new event organisers. The current ones are dying off quicker than they are being replaced. What it doesn't need is people trashing everyone who tries something. Sadly that seems to happen a lot.

Aerofoil said: ↑

Of course thousands have gone from trackdays to racing, no problem, pick a series, buy a car, sort your license and off you go. This is different though as its a proposal for a completely new race series. The requirement and experience to get that going and sustain it has already been covered.
Click to expand...

Yes, agree with all of that. Do you know who is organising it? You seem pretty scared of CVs, so do you know theirs? Ultimately, we don't actually know much about this series. Much like the new RS Megane actually. We don't know much about that but you slate it relentlessly, based on nothing more than speculation. I sense a theme...

Anyway, I'm out. What do I know...

Aerofoil · Jul 13, 2017

massivewangers said: ↑

Easy enough to police if you have a rolling road at the venue. Anyone above 260bhp is out. Does it add complexity? Perhaps, but it's not insurmountable. As you say, the stated rules don't cover the 265/275, but they haven't released the full regs, so you're making a negative assumption. Seeing as the core market will be the 225/230, it might not be much of an issue. The spoiler thing doesn't seem like a side issue, but a non-issue. As I say, perhaps they included the quickshift (which could be the bargain basement modified shifter as well as the CAE) as it doesn't exclude people with modified cars who want to make the jump from track days to racing.

Is a Gripper diff pricey? Yes, but given the relative shortage of R26 gearboxes, it opens up another option. Unless you ban the R26, thus alienating a good chunk of your potential target market? It's a difficult balancing act. As I have said twice now, at club level, driver skills makes every bit as much as car quality, especially the difference in performance between the Renault diff and a gripper one.

You're right, it does set a baseline standard that some people will try to adhere to. But said standard has to be set somewhere. That standard could have been set to allow sequential boxes and big turbos. It could have been set to allow nothing at all. They have made their choice and I don't think it is an entirely unreasonable balance. You're also right in that people don't like a series where someone has a better car but, guess what, that's racing. Someone will always have more money and a better car than you. Tough shit ultimately.

Once again, I see what you're saying, but any new series takes a risk. So what if it isn't backed by a major player? What motorsport needs to do is encourage people to get involved in organising. It needs to support new clubs, new series and new event organisers. The current ones are dying off quicker than they are being replaced. What it doesn't need is people trashing everyone who tries something. Sadly that seems to happen a lot.

Yes, agree with all of that. Do you know who is organising it? You seem pretty scared of CVs, so do you know theirs? Ultimately, we don't actually know much about this series. Much like the new RS Megane actually. We don't know much about that but you slate it relentlessly, based on nothing more than speculation. I sense a theme...

Anyway, I'm out. What do I know...
Click to expand...

In response I'm only going to have to repeat what's already been said several times.

Let's just see if it goes anywhere. Ultimate proof.

Aerofoil · Jul 24, 2017

Bump.

3 weeks later and no updates, developments or feedback from the series proposers.

Still plenty of time though for the 2018 season.

Cazper · Aug 5, 2017

I will stick to my trackdays more fun and less stress and cost of proper racing....plus too old for that lark.

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