MK3 Short Shifter

Discussion in 'Mechanical - Engine, Gearbox, Exhaust etc' started by Space Cadet, Dec 12, 2016.

  1. ianplymouth

    ianplymouth RSM Club Member

    If you are not sure it's good to ask, this is a picture of an engineer tap, it cuts threads in metal etc they look like the link bellow, i only put the link up because you can see what they look like.

    You have to use a tapping bar something like the link bellow

    If you are wanting an 8mm threaded hole you need to drill a 7mm hole, then you screw in the tap, you have to keep it as straight as possible while turning, you need to turn it back a quarter of a turn every half turn to clear the threads and also use some grease to stop the cutting edge getting blunt.

    Hope this helps
    Bowen likes this.
  2. To make things easier. On my car I just drilled a 8mm hole, just wide enough to pass the stub through and used a lock-nut to keep things together. Is pretty awkward to tap the hole there. I have 50k miles with this and never had an issue so definitely can go without the tapping.

    Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
  3. Thanks for the help Ian, appreciate it. I'll give it a go.
  4. ianplymouth

    ianplymouth RSM Club Member

    Either mine or Bulardas's way is good, i just like the belt and brace's way of doing it, i even thread locked it as well :sunglasses:
  5. Right, I’ve ordered a 10mm M8 Stainless-Steel ball stud, should arrive tomorrow so hopefully I’ll be able to fit it over the holiday period.

    Will report back once fitted and tested.

    A few quick questions –

    The guide says 15mm – 20mm away from the original stud. Presumably that’s from the centre of the original stud to the centre of the new hole?

    Will the throw be shorter if the new hole is further away? (i.e. 20mm rather than 15mm?) If so would 25mm away make things even 'better' or this too far?

    How far up or down (on the pictures) should the hole be drilled? One looks to be in-line from the original stud to the pivot-point, the other is ‘down’ – is there any science behind this?

    The guides both say to drill a 10mm hole, but presumably if the thread is M8 then it either needs a 8mm hole if just using a bolt underneath, or a 7mm hole if it’s going to be tapped and the stud screwed in (which I will do – along with a bolt!)

  6. Hello,

    I'll try to help you with all the questions.
    The most important point is the pivoting point of the gearbox. If you draw a line between the original stud and the gearbox pivoting point, the closer you install the new stud, the shorter the longitudinal throw will be. Going 25mm will then make it even shorter. But to have a decent shifting, you want to have a square shift motion of the shifter inside the car. Keep in mind this mod only changes your longitudinal shifting, not the lateral one. So if you go very short on longitudinal you will have a lot of movement left to right and very short front and back.
    If you move the new stud from that imaginar line we discussed in the first sentence, you move your shifter more towards back or front. Means you will have all the gears a little more to the front or more to the back. The risk here is to go too much in one direction and you will get to the limit of the cables.

    But most will be limited by the amount of material you have on that plate and you will see there are not that many options. Keep in mind you need to have same material all around the hole, so you can't drill that on the edge of the plate.

    Regarding the drilling. If you plan to tap the hole, you definitely need a 7mm vertical hole and then tap it in at least 2 if not 3 passed (different sized for M8). Tapping is a medium involved job where some past experience is needed especially due to the strange position will be hard to get it done right if is the first attempt ever. If you just go for the easy version with the lock-nut only, make sure you drill as close to 8mm as possible and if the stud doesn't pass through, you need to re-drill easily until it passes. Also it would help to add a shim on the back for more contact or at least a flanged stainless lock-nut.

    Hope it makes sense.
    TurboFlorio likes this.
  7. Thanks very much for the advice. Noted regarding the position of the new hole - I will keep this in-line with the original stud and the pivot point. And likewise noted regarding 25mm being too short - I will keep it 20mm, although bearing in mind your advice, would 15mm be a "happy-medium"?.

    I’ve got a bit of experience tapping holes so am comfortable in doing this, I was going to tap and also use a locking nut (to be doubly safe) therefore if the tapping doesn’t work then I can still use just the nut.
  8. Would you be able to edit this post? You've said 'drill a 10mm hole but should have said 7 or 8mm' depending on whether the hole is to be tapped. 10mm is not correct in either scenario.

    I have an R26 and did this mod over a year ago. It certainly does transform the driving experience. However, it's rather more involved on the mk2 linkage because it's a cast part rather than a plate, and therefore it needs to be milled before it can be drilled and tapped. I bought the part from Andrew Jeffs on here as I didn't really have the ability to mill it myself.

    It certainly seems to be a much easier job on the mk3 as you don't need to remove it from the car. At a guess I'd say it should be easily possible with in an hour.
  9. Well that turned out to be a balls-ache, after spending what felt like an hour removing the fiddly battery-box I drilled and tapped the hole and fitted the new stud to find that it was too close to the original stud for the selector arm thing to fit back on. I had drilled the hole exactly 15mm away (as per the guide) because any further the stud would be at an angle on the sloping part going down to the pivot. So the guide didnt work for my 2011 250 Cup, if per chance there are any differences between any of the years/models?!

    So I am either left with just putting it all back to normal or fitting the M-tech kit which I think I probably will do in the end as I didn't spend all that time taking to battery out for nothing...!!

    The one good thing about buying the kit is that it comes with a bracket for the clutch pipe which I don't have the time or patience to make up myself.
  10. Ping up a foto of what you've already drilled, maybe can salvage this mod, as often is the case these things are 'easy' but only after you've done it first time
  11. -Jamie-

    -Jamie- RSM Moderator

    It doesnt matter if its on an angle, Have a look at the photo. Your really making this out to be far more complicated than it is.

    Also, the bracket you need to mount the clutch pipe, its literally a strip of metal with some holes in it, God knows why you would pay £130 for something that can be done for a few quid!
  12. Just buy the CAE shifter ;-)

    @-Jamie- I assume the CAE uses the original link point? Ie there's no need to do both mods?
  13. It was worth a try for the couple of quid that the stud cost, and ¾’s of the time was spent removing the bloody battery-tray so I’m most of the way there.

    I’ve ordered an M-Tech kit which will arrive tomorrow and I can fit at the weekend, saves having to faff re-drilling & tapping another hole (regardless I don’t think there would be an alternative spot for it now as would need to be a good 15mm further away in an odd location (not in-line with the original stud and the pivot) to have some strong material to drill into) and also sourcing some metal to make up a bracket.

    Thank you for the concerns over my bank-balance but in this instance allowing for the time/hassle/money ratio it’s just easier to buy the relatively inexpensive kit, which also as mentioned comes with the bracket.

    Hats-off though to those that have done the DIY alternative.

    On a side-note to those that attempt this in the future I would recommend first accurately measuring the distance from the centre of the original stud to where you can safely mount the new stud. This will be much further than the 15mm (“15mm - 20mm”) advised in the guide. From memory 20mm might have been ok but as mentioned you will then be on the edge of the bend in the ‘arm’ and therefore I do not believe you will get a flat and therefore stronger face for the stud to fit against. You will be able to still tap the hole, but not also use a nut below as I was intending to do, welding would be perfect for this if possible.

    At the end of the day, my thread was to find out whether anyone had fitted short-shifters and if they were worthwhile, it wasn’t to discuss the merits of DIY vs shop bought kits. The resounding responses were that it was definitely a worthwhile mod and by Saturday I will have fitted one therefore job-done!

    Thanks for the mostly constructive comments.
    Bowen and Pyper like this.
  14. I done mine yesterday, best mod for little money going, I never measured but I got it just so the linkage fits just snug. Has reduced the throw by 30mm which I'm really happy with.
    Bowen likes this.
  15. Looks pretty easy to be honest.
    Do you just drill the lever in place?

    Can anyone tell me if this mod made the gear change feel notchy? I absolutely hate gearboxes feeling notchy. I always thought the gearthrow was similar to the Clio 200 which is short enough anyway!
  16. Yes drill in place, also I wasn't keen on tapping the ball stud to arm, thread' not long enough, so I simply drilled a hole and bolted the stud with nut and locktite. Gear change for me not at all notchy
  17. Not want to be duff in any way, but I would like to see how Space Cadet's story will end up with the MTec kit... Really caught my attention.

  18. It may very well just be a case of Renault having fitted different shaped shifter ‘arms’ (or whatever their correct name is) to difference models and years, therefore the DIY stud has fitted well for some and not for others/me.

    I certainly couldn’t drill the hole any further away than I have done without going on to the bend, I would highly recommend not mounting the stud on the bend as it will not seat very well and it will be impossible to securely tighten a bolt underneath if you wanted to - which I would advise to do so. The original stud is welded and I don’t think simply tapping and thread-locking the new stud in place will be strong enough. There is room to fit a bolt underneath if mounted on the flat part of the arm.

    My M-Tech kit has arrived today and I will hopefully fit it Saturday morning then go for a spin to test it out, will report back following.

    On first glances I would say the M-Tech stud is closer to the pivot point than having fitted the stud 15mm (or 20mm for that) closer in using the original ‘arm’. I will measure them both at the weekend and provide my findings.

    All in all, if there hadn’t been a DIY option I would be none-the-wiser and would happily of just bought the M-Tech kit anyway, so nothing lost other than ¼ of an hour drilling and tapping the hole, plus obviously sourcing the stud. And as mentioned the kit comes with the clutch pipe bracket which if you are a pen-pusher with a garage full of trikes/bikes/prams/buggies and chest-freezers rather than a work-bench and spare bits of metal lying about to make a bracket its easier sometimes just to pay for the privilege.
    Pyper likes this.
  19. Did you fit this? Regards
  20. Yes, the CAE uses the original link point...
  21. Well, that was one of the, if not the, fiddlyest jobs I've ever done, what a pain. The old arm came off really easy using the tool provided in the kit which pushed a pin out from the pivot. Well the pin did not easily want to go back into the new arm - the instructions said to use pliers (!!!) but after an hour of hammer and a G-clamp it was in. Actually there is a thinner pin to fit within the pin but there was no chance this was going in as well...!!

    So it's in and all is working really well, very happy with the shift now, much shorter and feels more accurate.

    The kit came with the clutch pipe bracket which for me was worth the extra cost, but if you're happy to make this up yourself then I would recommend just doing the DIY option, on the basis though that you can safely fit the ball-stud to your arm.

    Out of interest I put the new arm against the old and they are an identical profile, the old arm has the flat section for the stud in a different position as the new arm's stud is obviously closer to the pivot. The old stud is 77mm away from the pivot (center to centre) and the new arm is 57mm - so exactly the 20mm as per the DIY guide.

    The new arm is 698g whereas the old arm is 790g, so a weight saving there but not sure if this is intentional due to the weight of the new counter-weight.

    So if you can easily make up a bracket and have the flat space to mount the new stud then I'd say go for it, otherwise if like me you don't have the space for the stud on your old shifter and/or you can't easily make up a clutch pipe bracket then go for the kit.
    Pyper likes this.
  22. Without fotozzzz, all of the above never happened
    Bowen and ting_tong like this.
  23. It did, it did, I promise!!

    (No photos I'm afraid)
  24. Well I'm about to dig this up from the dead. I'm thinking about getting an M-Tech shifter (for lack of not wanting to F**k up a stock part). Reading the installation instructions, it says "remove the ECU" that really necessary or is there a way around that? I guess I'm just paranoid of electrical gremlins after I do something like that
  25. ECU is easy part, just 3 multi pin connections. It's the whole battery tray that's bit of faff, all do-able on drive though
    Meg16_Beth likes this.
  26. Thanks for the advice. I'll be having a look under the bonnet tomorrow afternoon. What about removing the battery, does it still mess up radio codes if I remove it longer than 10 minutes?
  27. Nope, and if didn't already know the tyre pressure sensors sort themselves out if you mix up their locations
  28. I have a mtech short shift if anyone is interested was only on the car for 1000 miles if that.
  29. @Meg16_Beth
    Meg16_Beth likes this.
  30. Well I messed this up on my 275. Gears 1 3 and 5 certainly feel shorter and as I expected. 2 4 and 6 initially felt shorter. perhaps not as short as 1 3 and 5 and close to the standard feeling. Half way through my test drive however I decided to boot it in 1st, then going into 2nd it didnt seem to engage. 2 4 and 6 now all feel longer than standard, its like the gear feels like it engages like it did standard, but I need to almost forcefully move the gear stick and drag the selector cable anothher 2cm back until it finally engages gear. Guessing I installed it too far forward or back against that imaginary line between the pivot and the ball stud.

    Going to have a look at it again, if possible Ill refit it, else ill return to standard.

    Feeling in 1st 2nd and 3rd is nice, but I found I had to slow down my gear change, 'rushing' it made gear selection either not possible.


    I returned it to standard. The shift into 2 4 and 6 feel as described before. Oddly the throw seems a little longer into 2 4 and 6 than before but it is much smoother. Where Id get a notchy entry into the gears I now get a smooth transaction, but it definitely does not feel like it did before I did this mod. Did I somehow mess up the linkage?

    Image to illustrate what I did - Would be good to know what I did so wrong.
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
  31. Added to my other thread, just in case anyone digs this up.

  32. I've done something worse. The clip arrangement on the socket head that holds onto the ball joint. I've broken 3 out of 6 of the pegs on that thing. How do i replace that "head". Zoom in on it to see what I'm on about

    Attached Files:

  33. Not sure if you can replace just that section as its attached to the metal rod. So could be a case of replacing the whole linkage.

    Can you google linkage replacement? Ive seen a few videos in my searching today where people have had busted connectors like yours and bodged them but I wasn't after a solution to that :smile:
  34. I tried bodging it with zip ties. Should've locked it in place with some kind of malleable sealant. Will probably replace that cable in a couple of months time
  35. -Jamie-

    -Jamie- RSM Moderator

    Cables are cheap anyway, I wouldn't bother bodging something
  36. Was hoping you might respond Jamie. do you know if replacing them is difficult? I think the difficult bit will be realigning the gear stick and getting the trim around the gear mechanism/cables will be different. Unsure about getting it through the firewall.

    Also having problems sourcing a part number so might have to remove the trim and look at the cable. I checked the parts sticky against my vin but don't see it. Also all the 250 or 265 vins I checked all have different part numbers so unsure if they are different.
  37. -Jamie-

    -Jamie- RSM Moderator

    Send Paul at RPD a message, they should be that hard to Fitz hardest part will be routing them I'd imagine
    MikeGoodwin and Meg16_Beth like this.
  38. Ok, so new cable arrived from Genuine Renault Parts in about 3 days. I removed the small panel on the center console to the left of where the clutch pedal is and was able to get the part number (I had seen on ebay that the part number was on the cable in that position).

    I got my center console out and currently have the cables lifted out of their brackets and have disconnected the linkage from the gearbox. Its still attached to the gear stick. I think im at the point of no return here, I could well end up having the car towed to a garage once this linkage is out.

    Its bloody tight where the rubber 'bung' thing in the middle forms a seal between the cabin and engine bay, I am not sure if I will be able to remove it with the dash still in place, even if I can I honestly dont know if Ill be able to get the new one back through again.
  39. Had the old one out and and new one in in about 30 mins excluding time taken to remove battery and trim. Short shift mod works great, lesson is don't tug your cable too hard else it'll break. £2 mod turned into about £200 thanks to my own stupidity and needing tools to solve the problems i created.
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
  40. Hi Mike, my gear lever end rod broke off, some years back on a mk2, tried several times to attach it, just kept coming off, if I'm not mistaken that is part of what is called the gate system, (I may be incorrect) I also had to replace whole gate system because a few fingers on a tiny clip broke off, can't believe you can't buy just a clip! Glad yours is sorted though.
    MikeGoodwin likes this.

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