/ Register

175 DCI Megane RS dCi 175 - hybrid turbo discussions

Discussion in 'Mechanical - Engine, Gearbox, Exhaust etc' started by bulardas, Nov 11, 2014.

Tags:
Page 2 of 2
  1. Dec 16, 2014 #41
    The Converted

    The Converted

    Still not convinced on the SMF conversion. I think your going to loose a lot of engine life and put stain in lots of engine components that were designed to have a DMF.
    My understanding is that DMF's dampen vibrations or 'judder' and resonance, specifically at low RPM's. one revolution of an engine especially a 4pot. isn't smooth its essentially multiple jolts of acceleration, DMF protects the engine and gearbox from this buy dampening its effect and smoothing things out. not ideal on a road car thats mostly at low Rpm's.

    Bulardas, would you make your own Clutch? or have some one recon one with Kevlar friction material?


    Andy
     
  3. Dec 16, 2014 #42
    Gavin.

    Gavin. RSM Admin

    I'm off the idea of an SMF personally, too many unknowns in the DCi.
     
  4. Dec 16, 2014 #43
    bulardas

    bulardas

    Andy,
    I would give this guys a call:
    http://www.clutch-specialists.co.uk/files_bespoke-clutch
    http://www.frictiontechnology.co.uk/contents/en-uk/d16_Friction-Discs-Material.html
    http://www.jimjackservices.co.uk/products.htm
    http://www.industrialfriction.com/kevlar-materials/

    Maybe one of them will help. You have to ask for "clutch relining with kevlar material". This is my plan.

    I hope you all understand that our dCi engine is a normal engine, nothing from the UFO technology. It moves around more Renault Master / Opel Movano carrying loafs of bread and screws than people on the twisties. And they all use SMF.
    You just need to use the original part from those vehicles and you are good to go. Nothing extreme.

    Usually tuning is a pretty unchartered territory. If K-Tec or RS Tuning is selling something, doesn't mean they hold the absolute truth. Things can work in various ways. But this is just me.

    S.
     
  5. Dec 16, 2014 #44
    The Converted

    The Converted

    I got to hand it to you you do, know the Renault range well. I think if my car was a toy, id be more extreme. but then it wouldn't be a DCI either, hell my Mini didn't even have reverse no need when you can push it back wards with one foot.

    i think a careful torque limiting map and DPF delete is all I have planned. if the clutch goes i will look to have it uprated then increase the map.

    those links might be good for you Gavin, might be a solution to your clutch slip.

    Andy
     
  6. Dec 16, 2014 #45
    Gavin.

    Gavin. RSM Admin

    Yeah I agree, I'm going to give Fred @BTM a call tomorrow, see what my options are, ideally it needs to be a quickish turnaround, so it could be a pain having to wait for my clutch plate to be refurbished.
     
  7. Dec 16, 2014 #46
    bulardas

    bulardas

    Maybe you can find a slipping clutch from someone who already changed it to send to refurbish and when everything is ready, just put it in the car. This is how I'm going to do it.

    S.
     
  8. Dec 16, 2014 #47
    Gavin.

    Gavin. RSM Admin

    That could be the way forward, there are plenty of used m9r clutches on eGay. So what do you reckon is a 'safe' torque figure, I was told anything under 350ftlbs, so I thought my 325ftlbs was fairly safe, yet it's still gone what I'd class as very early. Unless I've just been unlucky.
    I must admit it had crossed my mind about removing the map already, I hope it's not a sign of things to come, I'd prefer a reliable car over a faster one.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2014
  9. Dec 16, 2014 #48
    The Converted

    The Converted

    Might be obvious, bit a lot of people sit on there clutch on hills, see it all the time on up hill right turn by me people ride there clutch while waiting. or worse still leave there foot on the clutch pedal a little bit all the time.
    So maybe your unlucky, that's why im nervous about mine, the previous owner might have been my ex that needed 5k rpm to reverse park. So I'd like to have the clutch money together and idea what I'm going to do. Before I go mad.

    Andy
     
  10. Dec 16, 2014 #49
    Gavin.

    Gavin. RSM Admin

    Haha i know what you mean, i've had the discussion with my dad a few times, if RSDCi225's is on 65k+ with 380ft/lbs of torque mine must have had some hammer by its previous owner/s to be going 20k earlier.
     
  11. Dec 16, 2014 #50
    The Converted

    The Converted

    Bit off topic But the guy I was lift sharing with for abit. clutch slips, like nothing else. Then when I pointed it out he didn't understand why it was an issue. After much discussion, he just said its designed to slip (He's an electronics engineer by the way). apparently it was Vauxhalls fault when it needed replacing.

    Andy
     
  12. Dec 17, 2014 #51
    Gavin.

    Gavin. RSM Admin

    Haha, mines been getting worse the past few weeks, floored it in 2nd and 3rd earlier and the smell wasn't good. Won't be doing that again now, I need it to last until mid/late January. It definitely wasn't designed like that :wink:
     
  13. Dec 17, 2014 #52
    bulardas

    bulardas

    Gavin, if you ask me, I would not go over 450Nm (330ftlbs) of torque on the original clutch. So 325 is pretty much on the limit I would say.
    And I have the same plan. Find a used M9R clutch, refurbish than and then install in the car when the gearbox is down.
    I'm still thinking if I want to go SMF or not...

    S.
     
  14. Dec 17, 2014 #53
    The Converted

    The Converted

    Might be, a silly question. Can you feel it slip or just smell it?
    haven't you just had a dpf delete? New bits of exhaust often smell weird for a while when they get hot specially if you forget to take the labels off.

    Just a thought
     
  15. Dec 17, 2014 #54
    Gavin.

    Gavin. RSM Admin

    Yeah it's not that, one, I've seen the revs rise and fall again as it slips, and two, it's a very unique smell, it's definitely the clutch.
     
  16. Dec 18, 2014 #55
    Gavin.

    Gavin. RSM Admin

    Spoke with RS Tuning today, looks like i'll be taking it to them. They'll fit me a new uprated clutch, they'll take the standard one and take it (i assume) that first link you posted, as that's in Leeds too. They are only 30 mins away from me compared to 2hrs for Fred. it's a bit easier.
     
  17. Dec 18, 2014 #56
    Forceindia

    Forceindia

    What sort of cost Gavin?
     
  18. Dec 18, 2014 #57
    Gavin.

    Gavin. RSM Admin

    Nothing set in stone mate, but I've been told cheaper than my cheapest quote, that was £1200. He mentioned £270 labour plus parts, so at a rough guess i wouldn't say much less than £1200. I'm looking at getting it done mid Jan if it holds for that long, so i'll know more when i get it booked in properly.
    That's for the clutch kit with uprated plate, dual mass flywheel and slave cylinder.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2014
  19. May 12, 2015 #58
    bulardas

    bulardas

    So, in order to come with some updates.
    I kept the dual mass with an improved clutch disc and stock pressure plate. I also added a filled dog led mount which helps a lot. The car feels way sportier than I expected with the new clutch and some how more prepared to take the hybrid turbo performances.

    In the mean time, I managed to build my hybrid. It is a nice GT1856 turbo, good for 250hp. More details when I will install it.

    S.
     
  20. May 12, 2015 #59
    Gavin.

    Gavin. RSM Admin

    Sounds similar to mine, mine is half paddle clutch and half standard. Which dog leg mount did you go for?
     
  21. May 12, 2015 #60
    bulardas

    bulardas

  22. May 12, 2015 #61
    Gavin.

    Gavin. RSM Admin

  23. May 13, 2015 #62
    bulardas

    bulardas

    The petrol one are twisted (if this makes any sense). The 2 holes are perpendicular (if I can say this on a 3d space) where the diesel one is parallel.

    I can make one for you if you want. It should be around 15£ + shipping and I have a spare one, so we can do on exchange basis.

    S.
     
  24. May 13, 2015 #63
    Gavin.

    Gavin. RSM Admin

    Yeah why not, I'll wait until around July though, I've got a lot on this next 6 weeks. Cash flow will be tight as it is.
     
  25. Aug 24, 2016 #64
    Jakg

    Jakg

    Bump - has anyone got any further fitting new turbos?

    I assume that you'd have to remap it also after fitting a new turbo?
     
  26. Aug 24, 2016 #65
    MilosB

    MilosB

    Not nececerly but whats the point of a bigger turbo if the map is for the same pressure (OK i know, the bigger turbo will provide the same pressure at lower temperature so more mass of air will flow but that negligable)

    Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk
     
  27. Aug 24, 2016 #66
    bulardas

    bulardas

    I fitted my own hybrid.
    S.

    Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
     
  28. Aug 24, 2016 #67
    ianplymouth

    ianplymouth RSM Club Member

    Hi Guys
    I have a Espace 2.0 dci 175hp and a megane rs dci, i was led to believe that the engines were the same, well they might be but the turbo's are different, it was while i was trying to find a replacement for my Espace that i came across a site that said the Espace turbo was an upgrade for the Megane dci, just as another note, my Espace was remapped by Radical remaps about 4 years ago, i went for the torque/economy one instead of the full power version, the main reason for this was my DPF was blocked 86% blocked, so had the guts removed and then the remap, this is my work vehicle so a full power version was not required.

    I recon it must be around 200 hp as the full power version was supposed to be 230hp, but have never had it dyno'd, i am still running a standard clutch and believe its the original one, this car gets used hard all the time, i have lots of stuff in the Espace 2 ton 2 post ramp wouldn't lift it, ohh and it's done 151k miles :sunglasses:
     
    L-1011 and Gavin. like this.
  29. Jan 25, 2017 #68
    Gavin.

    Gavin. RSM Admin

    @bulardas did you ever get any further with your investigation on the hybrid turbo? The thought has entered my head recently.
     
  30. Jan 25, 2017 #69
    bulardas

    bulardas

    Hey,

    I'm running my hybrid for over an year now. What I can say is that, I never managed to give it full beans due to calibration in progress status. I really hope to finish this in the next couple of weeks and prepare the car for the next track day.
    But I would say the TC is behaving as expected. I run around 200hp at the moment and the EGT dropped around 100degC for the same power compared with original TC. This opens up a whole world of possibilities for more power.
    Spool took a hit and I lost around 300-350rpm until I manage to get to 1bar boost. Is the maximum lag I could live with and now I'm trying to come up with some specific calibration ways to spin that up faster. If I can map out 150rpm from this penalty I would consider myself happy.
    The TC can hit 550Nm without any issues which seems to be the limit of my clutch and where I will pretty much cap the torque anyway.
    Setting everything close to OEM standards is anything but easy. But can be done for sure. Currently the car can still be driven by wifey, which is the best mean of assessing OEM drivability.

    Let me know if you need more details.
    S.
     
    MilosB likes this.
  31. Mar 7, 2017 #70
    MilosB

    MilosB

    Im installing an gtb2260vk on my 1.9 dci :smile:
    It shpuld be fun :smiley:

    Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk
     
  32. Mar 8, 2017 #71
    bulardas

    bulardas

    Why have you chose such a big turbocharger?

    S.
     
  33. Mar 8, 2017 #72
    MilosB

    MilosB

    it is a proven turbocharger on a lot of the 1.9tdi engines. (the one Im getting was pushing 320hp on seat ibiza 1.9tdi)
    with a proper map, the turbo is on full boost at 3000ish rpm, but the power at the 2000rpm (for a 88kW engine) is above the max power of OEM engine.
    the turbo is much more free flow regarding the exhaust which is the main obstruction on the 1749 imho.
     
  34. Mar 8, 2017 #73
    bulardas

    bulardas

    I know lot of people use it but if you have full boost at 3000rpm, how much USABLE rpm band got left?
    Also keep in mind that the higher rpm goes, the more you will struggle with combustion.
    So even if you have lots of airflow at 5000rpm, you need huge injectors and high fuel pressure to dump all the fuel in a short enough time to give the combustion a chance to do its thing.

    S.

    Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
     
    MilosB likes this.
  35. Mar 9, 2017 #74
    MilosB

    MilosB

    Yes that is correct but the full boost pressure for this turbo is 2.5 bar :smiley: that is double of the oem one :smile:
    And I have 2ooo rpm left. I dont intend to chase such high boost/power :smile: i only want a reliable 220-250bhp 1.9 dci :smiley: which this turbo should privide with no sweth :smiley:

    Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk
     
    Aidanb likes this.
Page 2 of 2

    • Share This Page


    • Welcome to our site! Please take a moment and Register today!