225 Cylinder Misfire Help

Discussion in 'Mechanical - Engine, Gearbox, Exhaust etc' started by Trophyboy, Feb 7, 2017.

  1. Bit of an update. Managed to do another compression test on it today and it is leading towards piston ring failure.
    Results:
    Cylinder 1 = 135psi
    Cylinder 2 = Zero psi
    Cylinder 3 = 110psi
    Cylinder 4 = 145psi

    Now, i dont want to go down the forged route as ive threw so much money at this car that i just couldnt justify it and with having a young family etc funds wouldnt allow it. I just want to get it back up and running again as i need it for work.
    I can use the mrs car for now but not forever as she needs it herself.

    What would be my options here? Could i get away with a set of new rings?

    Any help from the experts on here would be much appreciated.

    Cheers
     
  2. TBh if your doing it on a budget and need it quick your best bet is a second hand engine in good condition.

    Without tearing the engine down/ doing a leakdown test/ looking with a boroscope your just guessing its the rings. If its ringland failure you will need a new piston plus rings.
    New rings are around the £100 mark alone. I'm unsure how much a new piston would be i've picked a seconf hand one up before for £50 - you will need to check the numbers on the top of the piston as they are graded my old engine had 3 B labbelled pistons and one C labelled, ideally you'd want to hone the cylinder with the new piston too(price dependant on machine shop). plus timing belt kit(£80ish quid), new gaskets(50-150) etc etc
    Without looking at the piston you wont tell if its just a simple crack of the ringland or if something has come off and scratched the cylinder walls/ damaged the combustion chamber etc.

    With your dipstick being blown out it does sound like bad blow by though so probably bottom end.

    Are you able to fit a new engine yourself or tear down an engine and inspect?
    As cost wise it will be probably be similar in parts/ new engine but i'd imagine the labour would be more for repairing the engine rather than replacement. (depending on damage)
     
    Mircea, Nigelo and Trophyboy like this.
  3. Thanks for replying bud. I have thought about a replacement engine but that can be a 50/50 chance. It could last 500 or 5000 miles.
    I would rather rebuild this one on the best budget i can. Luckily my mate works in Renault parts so i get staff discount.

    Ive no way of doing a leak down test at home but did borrow a borescope from a mate.
    Talked to a few mech mates and from the symptoms ie, smoke from oil cap/exhaust, misfiring they said one of the pistons may have a hole in it.

    Got the borescope down it but no signs of any holes.

    I do have the capability to strip down and rebuild it but at home it maybe difficult. Its a communal car park and im on top floor apt lol.

    Im thinking of maybe removing the head as a starter to see whats going on but not sure how big of a job it is and if i can do it at home.

    I'll post pics of the cylinders via the borescope now
     
  4. Cylinder 4 (Belt end)
    60d0c2cebab251413a0117abe9f619fa.jpg

    Cylinder 3
    e5539ea2fd544d286ca74fc2334ab8e3.jpg

    Cylinder 2
    66e2e60c0815459ad02d5fc6d5c2bd7c.jpg

    Cylinder 1 (Gearbox end)
    75a3d120ff0bd9016905ac8db71e77eb.jpg

    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
     
  5. Cant see a great deal from those pics - any chance of getting a few more with some better light/ less oil on the pistons? I'd also drop the suspect cylinder to the bottom and inspect the walls for any scratches.

    I know what you mean about a second hand engine can be a bit of a gamble.

    It is an odd one though as your compression was a good 155psi across all 4 cylinders to start, now you have no compression on cylinder 2 and low compression on cylinder 3. Was the compression tests both done with the same kit?

    Your car didn't overheat while you were stuck in the jam? Just wondering if it could be a cracked head/ buggered head gasket?
     
    Trophyboy likes this.
  6. Ill nip out now while its dark and see if i can grab some better pics. Im unsure how to clear the oil away so will do my best.

    Yeah thats what i thought mate with regards the compression test as ive only driven it round the block while testing although dipstick blew out after 1st test.
    They were however different compression testers. Im gonna grab the 1st compression tester that i used and do another test in morning as it looked a propper jobby. One i used today was a lot smaller.
    Certainly is strange that im getting no comp on 2 and low comp on 3.

    I sent the pics to my mech mate and he did say the headgasket may have gone between Cylinder 2 and the oil feed gallery.
    When i was stuck in traffic i kept an eye on the temp gauge and it stayed just below half way and never moved.
     
  7. Tried getting some better pics but these are the best i can get. Cant bend the probe around far enough to see the side walls. Its only a probe on a cable that plugs into my phone.

    a8b5ed00643d62126c3de0e6209a17a4.jpg

    5f77d1571f264b37fdbee5566f283a4a.jpg

    7e979ffc76689eb67e4dc15d9a9f0b9c.jpg

    2c8ecc18c6b07027027f4f9c4ab062d9.jpg

    89abcf3ab32c53d321aa242606a3e5dd.jpg

    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
     
  8. ianplymouth

    ianplymouth RSM Club Member

    It is a struggle to get the head off with the engine in the car, it took me about 3 half days, i only wanted to replace the valve stem seals, once the head was off i pulled the engine out in a couple of hours, put the engine back together on the floor and then you can get at all the nuts and bolts that were such a pain to get to when it was in the car, to refit the head, turbo, and all the other bits took just over 3 hours, then refitted the engine, it is so much easier to pull the engine out i would almost consider it when the cambelt needs replacing.
     
    Nigelo and Trophyboy like this.
  9. Cheers Ian

    Yeah i had a good look at everything today and taking the engine out would be so much easier. It does look like im gonna have to take the head off anyway to see what the hells going on with it as its slowly beating me lol :confounded:

    Any chance of a quick rundown on whats involved in removing it bud?
     
  10. ianplymouth

    ianplymouth RSM Club Member

    In removing the engine ????
     
  11. Yes please mate if you wouldnt mind?

    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
     
  12. ianplymouth

    ianplymouth RSM Club Member

    Nigelo likes this.
  13. Yeah i have looked at this bud and does look a very good option at the minute to get me up and running again.


    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
     
  14. How many hours to remove and refit roughly (At a garage with 2 lads on it)
     
  15. ianplymouth

    ianplymouth RSM Club Member

    Jack up the car, make sure its solid on axle stands and high enough to get in under the car.

    Disconnect the battery
    Remove
    front wheels
    inner front arch liners
    front bumper and under tray
    drain engine oil, gearbox oil and coolant
    remove head lights
    the crash bar
    intercooler, air con rad and radiator
    you need to loosen the hub nuts, so get someone to put foot on the brake, or use a chisel :laughing:
    calipers and discs off
    undo lower suspension mounts, track rod ends, anti twist links (only one end needed) hub clamp bolt, then remove the hub
    passengers side, pull out drive shaft
    drivers side, undo the bearing retainer plate and pull the complete shaft out
    remove battery, battery box and ecu bracket, after unplugging the plugs on the ecu, air box if you have one
    disconnect the engine wiring loom from the fuse box
    gear cables
    pipes on the air con pump
    fuel and vacuum pipes
    top rear and bottom rear stabiliser mounts
    exhaust
    take the weight of the engine with engine hoist
    undo gearbox mount nut, you might have to give it a good clout to release it
    drivers side mount from chassis and engine
    there are two hoses at the rear for cabin heater easier to pull the engine forward to get at
    and then the clutch pipe, this will empty your master cylinder so lift it up or cap it off

    lift the engine out of the hole, that is about it, might be a few odd bits i have missed but that the gist of it.
     
    Nigelo likes this.
  16. ianplymouth

    ianplymouth RSM Club Member

    I have done a couple now, last time was for me about 3 1/2 hrs if you have not done this before i would say a days work, there are all the rusty bolts to over come, going back would be quicker
     
  17. Thanks so much for the info bud.

    Ive just got off the phone to a guy whos an ex Renault tech.

    Said hes 90% certain that its over heated in traffic and the head gasket has probably failed but without removing head its hard to say but the weakest point on the head is the middle?
    Possibly failed between cylinder 2 and an oil gallery which is why im getting excess pressure & smoke through the oil filler neck.
    Getting a price tomoz to get the work done :sob:
     
  18. ianplymouth

    ianplymouth RSM Club Member

    No problem, by the time you spend out on gaskets, pistons etc it would be just as well to put another engine in it, the engine i took out of mine for the 250 upgrade had done 117k miles and in the last 2 years has basically been used only on track days, there is nothing wrong with it, i suppose there are good ones and not so good ones
     

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