So did a quick test run tonight on my CC / volume check on my head pots with the plate I mentioned in the posts above. It is fairly primitive but if done correctly it will indicate any major indifference between volumes and of course point you in the right direction for evening them out before you spend a a*s load of time polishing or putting the head on as it is. For many reasons they need to be as even as possible im sure most of you guys know but for anyone who doesnt they will have an effect on your compression and air fuel ratio. So the results I got are C1 : 40.0ml C2 : 40.0ml C3 : 40.2ml C4 : 40.4ml 1ml = 10cm3 volume. So within 0.4cm3 by eye, dont think thats bad considering it was probably uneven from that factory given the pots are cast! Anyway a quick rundown on the test, did not take photos while doing the tests so set two cylinders up quickly to explain. Started by installing the plugs and back of the valves, im using rubber grease here but any grease will do, it needs to be watertight any leakage will give a false reading. You can fill the pots with water to check. Then need to apply a ring of grease around the face to the edge of the pots to seal the pot. It is quite important you dont go ott as any grease squishing in the pot when the plate goes down will also give a false reading. Once this is done place the head on a sturdy surface (clamping it down would be ideal) and level the head face, it does need to be as level as possible (this should be done after greasing and installing valves / plugs I took these photos to show not in order sorry!) You should check the level in one direction and then again 90degrees from the direction to ensure square level. Once this is done plant the test plate down (can provide details how to make but its essentially a copied solid head gasket with just the hole centres) this needs to be flat and should be secured down. You can check the grease seal by just tapping the areas where the face is underneath, it should make a solid tap without any movement when it is in contact with the head. No leakage is the aim again. Once fitted measure water or thin oil into the cylinder pots, I have chamfered the filling hole to make it easier to see the water level when it hits the bottom of the plate the pot should be full and the amount filled is your volume. Air vents can also be added to help remove air from the pot as its filled although I did not drill them here. Can pick up syringes cheaply that are accurate enough for this test! Ideally a larger type and a smaller for finer filling. I used a 20ml and a 1ml (in 0.1ml increments) below is a photo of two full pots can see the water level at the bottom of the filling hole. Can explain the plate if anyone wants to know. Probably should post this in the how to section too? Anyway let me know if you guys have a different method or what you think!
Thats a good question, I wish I ran the same check before doing the work to see the difference and imbalance that stock head had. Personally I think all within 0.4CC is quite close, and good enough for what I am doing with the engine, they are all visually equal, and even checking what few points you can with a vernier they are all within a small variance so I will leave it as is for now, may decide to improve them before the head goes on though. The other problem is where to remove material from and also evenly. 0.4cc is a miniscule volume if you are to skim some off over the whole pot. Could even be done with polishing perhaps. The easiest way to get them as close as possible would be with a cnc mill, but then the cost is also huge in comparison. And I would be quite surprised if anyone had a program for this particular head!
Agreed, but I think I could get them better with a bit of time, need to spend a day on it really its a slow process Ordered my studs, gaskets and sealant so waiting on them now to build up the bottom end. If anyone needs a second hand oil pump the old one is available in the for sale threads.
Hope so seems to be well rated so should be fine. Cant wait to start putting it back together. Need a carrer change too quite enjoying doing the work!
Thanks mate!! Its the main reason I bought it but I think its also useful for coating some of the other gaskets too, so can keep everyone informed on where I use it for info. There is another sealant ED sell by the same maker, reinzoplast, seems to be the same type as used on the rocker cover etc, so will get that too later on!
So today decided to get the block finished up and ready. Getting ready to clean up the sump face and saddle seats. Took a OE cap bolt to my local engineering supply shop to match a tap for checking the bolt threads. Left with a M10X1.5 tap (which I will later cut a flat on the end to reach to the bottom of the threaded bore) Ran it in by hand to check and found it to be quite tight (trying to shave off a small amount of the thread) but more than I expected so have stopped until my studs arrive to measure them against the tap. Measured the OE bolt which came in at 9.7mm which is incredibly sloppy in the bores!? Has anyone else found this? Is the OE thread infact M10X1.5 if anybody knows?
Yeah thats how I matched them, I could be wrong of course could be a 10X1.25 or possibly another thread altogether. Unfortunately I dont have thread gauges at home. Wondering if anybody else had a similar deal! Could try and get a video of the OE bolts in the threads its hard to believe they havnt let go before they are so sloppy
There does seem to be alot of oil and gunk up in the threads, might try air and brake cleaner them out tomorrow and see if it helps! Will measure the studs when they arrive and go with whatever they are but pretty sure they will be 10X1.5? Hopefully all this helps somebody else having problems in the future!
Agreed. Definitely glad Im going with the studs now. Think I may need to do some work to the bottom of the caps too as there is a slight indent where these old bolts have sat, may need cutting back to get the nuts sat correctly. Will see when they turn up and if I need to do anything will post that up too for reference. This engine is sure keeping me busy
I love threads like this (no pun intended by the way [emoji23]). The attention to detail is amazing! Do you do this for a living then? Either way, top work mate [emoji1303]
Putting the final polish on the head and it will be ready for new valves and skimming! Not quite as flat as I had hoped for but it now has an almost mirror shine, taken a very small amount from the walls of the two pots with a lower volume to try and even them out. Pot on the right done pot on the left still polising!
The stud kit has arrived and after reading through the ARP leaflet the studs are definitely M10X1.5, so with that I started to chase the cap threads. I have gone with a fairly high quality HSS tap, would advise to anybody spend the extra money and dont get one from ebay etc, a tungsten carbide tap would also be fine. So started by winding the tap down each thread dry, by hand using a T bar, ran it through and back out, cleaned the tap off with degreaser and then ran it back down by hand only a couple of times. Thread should be smooth at this point a couple of them took a couple more passes but all done and ready to be cleaned out for the studs. Anyway I decided to check my cap seats over whilst clearing the threads, clearly somebody at Renault had another bad day when they milled the seats. I noticed some high spots which where visual and feelable by nail which I decided could not be left. Unable to find engineers blue it left me with only the sharpie to use, I have inked up the cap seat. Using a piece of tool steel which I know to be true with 800grit paper I then began to flat the seats to ensure the caps have maxiumum surface contact, I am taking minimal amount off and not flatting milling marks, only any irregular high spots! I would not advise anybody to do this unless you are sure you know what to do or do regular metalwork, anything removed from this directly effects the main bearing clearance. As I will be gauging the bearings anyway I will know if clearance will be an issue. Anyway boring disclaimer over here are some photos! I will be checking the caps and doing the same work if needed also. As you can see in the photo below, a high spot to the right of the seat.
No just wet with degreaser, bit naughty I know, its not taking any material off, reason it was sticking up so bad before was purely gunk!
Yeah seems so, quite alot of black gunk left on the tap first time it went down, my stock bolts are really loose so would imagine oil has gone down the threads! Definitely looking alot better now going to fit the studs!
Cheers mate. Got some handy, just cleaned them out pretty hard to get a decent photo but they have come up nicely, threads look alot better and clean.
Yeah looks good that. Acetone is better than brake cleaner because it doesn't leave a film on the surface when dried. Whereas brake cleaner/degreaser can.
Yeah definitely, brake cleaner usually leave a white coloured film, definitely leaves something behind when it evaporates! Ill put up some more photos depending on how far I get today, was hoping to get a test build done to check main bearings!
Well either you have the wrong bearings, they are out of tollerance or you have a problem. Could be the crank or caps and block. Im trying not to think about that now Anyway looks like Ill be finding out shortly, got the studs in, caps checked and flatted as much as I dare as above, mains and thrusts all in. Just checking the crank over and should be good to go!
I suppose if some are too tight on tolerance and some are at the loose end, you could swap the bearings round on those to equal them out.
So mananged to get my crank "dry" run complete, and all 5 mains plastigauged. As far as measurements go I couldnt be much more pleased. measurements are a guess within reason as the gauge only gives you specific squish sizes. Renault spec - 0.032 / 0.09 metric. M5 - 0.045 M4 - 0.045 M3 - 0.045 M2 - 0.045 M1 - 0.075 I didnt put full torque on M1, so may check it a second time when I go for the final build. Still in tollerance but would be happier if it was equal (probably will be at full torque) Photos and torques from 5 - 1 just the order I took them off! Its been a complete success!
Forgot to add, the dodgy colour of the gauge is due to me using a running in oil to build with green dye
