The project started today First thing was to jack it up and remove the wheels. I didn't take any pics of the engine being removed as i thought most would be able to suss this part out. I tried to put the 225 drive shafts into the 250 gearbox and they wont fit, there is a step on the 225 shaft that is too big in diameter, (only by a millimeter or two), the splines look the same though. I will be stripping both gearbox's and see if the parts will swap over sometime in the next couple of days. With the engine out (3hrs) the wiring loom was removed as this is going to be transferred to the 250 engine, it was quite dirty due to oil and dust/soil over the years, it was put into my parts cleaning bath and blasted off with air, now nice and clean. Next was removing the gearbox.
Engine out I have taken pics of the clutch's This is the 225 clutch This is the 250 clutch The 225 clutch sticks out further than the 250 one by about 9-10 mm, the covers look identical, i think the difference is down to the duel mass flywheel on the 225 being thicker. I also measured the depth of the clutch slave cylinder down from the gearbox face and the 225 one is around 8-10mm further down, so i am presuming if i am going to use the 225 gearbox on the 250 engine, then i will also have to use the 225 duel mass flywheel. Going to wait to see if i can get the drive shafts to fit the 250 gearbox before i go any further on this.
The outlet pipe on the 250 engine points the wrong way, so the 225 one was removed and i fits straight on, result was thinking additional pipe work or thermostat housing was going to be required. The knock sensor on the 250 was broken and the fitting was different, but the stud on the 250 unscrews and the 225 one screws straight in. The Pipe in the pic bellow was also removed from the 250 engine, this is the fuel vapour return rail, it runs across the rear of the engine bay on the 225 but across the engine on the 250, i will be leaving and using the original vent pipe this can go. I swapped over the alternator and air con pump to the new engine and that's all i have done so far. It is supposed to be raing in the morning so might do a bit more.
Couple of tips mate from someone who has completed this already. Use the 225 gearbox, I don't think the 250 box will fit without fouling. Use the 225 thermostat, it's a straight fit and solves clearance issues. Don't try to use the 250 throttle body on the 225 ecu, can be wired in but it will randomly stop working. Easiest solution is to make a spacer plate to bolt the 225 tb to the 250 inlet. Also, use all the 225 boost pressure sensors [emoji846] And good luck [emoji6]
Also, yes use the 225 flywheel and clutch. I upgraded to the R26R clutch with TTV solid flywheel at the same time.
Many many thanks for your input Ewan I have already swapped the thermostat outlet pipe as it was a straight swap and it will line up as before, i did think about the 250 throttle body but the plugs were different and as its an unknown i will use the 225 one and may play later once it's all running properly, already started making the adaptor plate. I left the 250 boost sensor on but if you think there is, a or will be a problem i will change it for the 225 one. I am going to try and fit the 250 gearbox, it fits in the DCi megane, i believe it will go but i have the 225 box too fall back on if time is an issue, i think it is a stronger box and i am also used to it as it's the same as i have in my espace.
It is a PK0 box as used in the dci, I was told it didn't fit with the 225/250 engine in the 225 bay. It's worth a try, although the standard 225 box will take a fair bit of torque without issue. Unless you are forging and going big power it will cope. Also, whilst I remember you will need to use your original starter. It's coded to your ecu, part of the immobiliser circuit I think.
This morning, (due to it raining) the gearbox from the 250 was split, good job too This box has only done 32k, so i was told, it could have been stored outside, it all cleaned up now, the diff is so different trying to work out my options, might just buy a complete cup gearbox, was going to try and use the Quaife from the 225 box so i have that box to use if the worst comes to the worst.
Next was trying to sort out the vent pipes for the fuel and engine breathing, the 225 manifold has one spigot in the middle of the manifold but the 250 has two together 225 250 The smaller spigot that is used for engine breathing has done away that silly fitting that's in the throttle body I warmed up the plastic pipe and pulled it apart did the same to the 250 pipe i did try and reconnect to two pieces of pipe back together with a piece of plastic pipe but it kept collapsing so used a piece of rubber hose the larger spigot that is pointing toward the engine is the same size as the one that is in the middle of the 225 manifold, this one is used for the vacuum for the brake servo and engine breather, this was also warmed up and was gently straightened so it would fit. Also had to fit the 225 engine lifting point as the 250 one is going to interfere with the fitting of the 225 throttle body. The 225 wiring loom is now fitted, had to change the oil pressure sender and water temp sender as the plugs are not the same.
You can use the 250 boost sensors, in fact it would make tuning better. I've spoken to Paul about it yesterday and he now is able to dial them in. Assuming you're taking it there for mapping? Fit them when your at his place though as it will run bad otherwise. Also leave the boost reference pipe on the manifold to FPR unplugged first as the management won't work with it connected. Also you'd need a 5 bar regulator for the intank pump unit if you want to utilise the rail with rising rate FPR. I'm going to try to dial in the 250 throttle body on 225 management but not swapping the engine just yet. Got too many stuff on my mind unfortunately!
Hi Tutuur I will more than likely be taking it to Paul, but because of the distance i will more than likely trailer it there. I have left the 250 boost sensor on for the minute, when its finished i might try the 225 one to see what difference it makes. Would really like to use the 250 throttle body if i could, its got a bigger hole in it so i would like it very much if you would keep me up to date on how it works out.
Yes i know , tried to put it in the original orientation and it would need to be stepped of by around 50+mm, going to wait to see if tutuur works out the 250 one.
well done there mate, this should be quite easy then, i have a standard pk4 box, so either need a new LSD unit, buy another box with LSD, or take the very easy option of putting in the 225 box, if i put the 225 box in i can have it up and running next week.
I had the 250 tb wired in and working with the 225 ecu, it's just a matter of swapping plugs. But I was told that it randomly stops working, and the only way to get it to work is to restart the car. Not so much fun when you are trying to drive! Also, you would then need to think about how to plumb in the intercooler as the 250 piping goes in the opposite direction for the fmic. If you get it working reliably then let me know, I still have the 250 tb but I gave up to get the car working [emoji846] I am still trying to find a way to modify the 225 intank fuel pump to put out 5.5bar instead of the standard 3.5bar. Then can make use of the 250 fpr on the rail.
So did "you" have it working or was it what you have heard. Not sure what you mean about the 250 piping, but i am not using an intercooler As for the fuel pump i am thinking of using a remote pump and doing away with the in tank one, not sure yet the way to go.
No, had the tb working. You need to use the 250 plug and rewire to match the 225 wiring. But didn't trust it so went back to the 225 tb. You aren't using an intercooler? I thought you were fitting this in a 225..
was trying to find a wiring diagram for both units just to make sure the pins go to the same points inside, still looking though I have a charge cooler, so it's quite easy for me to change it around, but it don't look that far off
Ah, that makes sense then! It's not such a big deal to adjust the pipe work, but it was another hurdle for me and I needed the car back on the road.
I have until mid February to get it sorted as i have already paid for a trackday at Silverstone so not too much of a rush yet
Because the weather wasn't too bad today (not raining) i had to do some real work, so only managed a couple of hours on the car today. Decided to go with the 225 top engine mount, so took the 250 cover off and replaced it with the 225 one, two of the top bolts had nowhere to go but still leaves 3 bolts and two studs to secure the cover. Then i tried to fit the cover and mount, only two bolts had holes, so drill and tapped for the third bolt and that was all that was done. drilled and tapped
I will definately try to get the 250 throttle body working, tbh i can't imagine it cutting out randomly, think it's just a ghost story but might be wrong. Pinout is something i'll have to find out still. I also drew up an adaptor which will fit onto the 250tb and give you same size connection as the standard 225 throttle body. Might be interesting if you do want to use the 250 throttle body. Going to inform on a price to have it cnc'ed soon so could let you know how much it'd be if you're interested. The 250 boost sensors definately wont work without them being dialed in, also this could throw the ecu's fuel timing out so i advice you not to try it. @Ewan, as discussed before you can use the 250 fpr, you'd just need to turn it down in a lathe as the diameter is bigger.
I thought it might have been a bad connection or a broken wire that would cause a shut down, if there a problem with it then i would have thought it wouldn't start or rev up. I have actually put the 250 throttle body back on tonight, there's hoping, what are you getting cnc'd ???? Okay on the boost sensor, will swap them over and will take the 250 one with me when it gets mapped.
Im a cnc machinist. Im sure i could sort you both out adaptor plates for a small fee (or a passenger ride) if you have the design.
hmmm, could make things interesting buddy! Here's what i've made up: Has 55mm OD as standard but 50mm ID, the throttle plate is 45, inlet on body 46 but i'm looking into making a butterfly of 50mm in the future. Although i'm sure the 2mm in difference alround wouldn't be a problem for airflow. Let's see what Ste has to offer
Shouldnt be a problem. Pm me details or stl file and i will sort the one out, make sure it works, then make the second.
Liking that, wish i had the sort of skills to make things like that. as for air flow any bigger hole is better than the standard 225 one.
