2005 megane 225 clutch bleeding woes

Discussion in 'Mechanical - Engine, Gearbox, Exhaust etc' started by Lee Robertson, Nov 18, 2018.

  5. Guy from midlands Renault got back to me there, reckons its the clutch master. Clutch was fine before it slipped, i suppose that would explain fluid just dripping out the disconnected clutch line instead of shooting out.
  6. I've also just ordered a complete clutch line from the gearbox to the bulkhead, for two reasons. Everyone else in the world seems to be able to reverse bleed these up to the reseroir, i can't, just huge back pressure and a face and paintwork covered in fluid, plus that bloody clip at the slave bleed is getting near on impossible to release.
    How i haven't knackered the clutch slave pipe is beyond me with my major tantums during bleeding, or not bleeding i my case! :-)
  7. really feel for you, these car can be very frustrating to work on , lack of space, it's almost you have to remove the spare wheel to change a headlight bulb:tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy:, not the best design for sure.

    Good luck refitting it all together and hope it gets sorted very soon as my haeart is torn every time i see another 225/r26 being sold for parts even though it runs beautifully, such a shame
  8. Well new clutch master and pipe to the slave are here. I'll be honest here, some jobs i take on and i just have a feeling of impeding doom, and that this isn't going to solve it, and this is one of those jobs.
    So far got the master on, and was extremely pissed off at how enthusiastically the old master i took off shot out the fluid left in it when i pumped it!
    I'm feeling the new pipe to the slave might do something, just that i couldn't back bleed at all like 'normal' people seem to do! :-)
    Incidentally, that return spring above the clutch pedal, does it just perch on top of the master? Couldn't see any location grooves or anything on old master?
  9. Where was the spring attached before?

    I think I mentioned it earlier in the thread, but if the clutch pedal cannot fully return to it's fully up position, the master cylinder won't be able to draw fresh fluid in from the reservoir, nor pump old fluid out, nor be reverse bled. You definitely want to make sure that this is working before attempting to bleed again!

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  10. It was difficult to see exactly where the bottom of the spring sat to be honest in- situ. Top is self explanatory, two little u-shaped recesses on the top of the spring mechanism sit into two little poles sticking out like tiny little handlebars, bottom of the spring section just has one larger U-shaped recess in it, like it would just settle on a cylinder shape piece.
    I'll have to have a closer look as the spring just fell down before i had a good look at it.
  11. Had a look at other clutch pedal springs photos and the springs seem to be near enough horizontal, pushed mine up to this position and brilliant, pedal shot up to where it should be!
    But, misses started pumping pedal for me to bleed and she said pedal wasn't coming back up?
    Loked atit and pedal was half way up, pull the pedal up by hand and it instatly springs from half way position to the top, push pedal down again and it sticks half way up,something odd is happening half way?
    Incidentally when pedal is at top slave cylinder is pushing pressure plate springs ok, which is annoying.
    Can anyone stick there phone up by the pedal and take a pic from the driver's side of the car at the pedal spring for me?
  12. That’s pretty normal behaviour when there is air in the system. The clutch pedal seems to rely on both the return spring, and also the spring of the pressure plate to drive the pedal into the starting position. If there is air present, this is just compressed in the clutch line, but with not enough pressure to push the MC and pedal back to fully off.

    As a result, you will struggle to push fluid using the pedal to the slave cylinder bleed point, as all the pedal will be doing is compressing the air in the system, rather than providing any fluid movement through the lines. If this is happening, this is where the advice to reverse bleed with a syringe comes in handy, as you can get some positive fluid movement through the system which will drive out the air. The clutch pedal must be in the fully upright position for this to work!

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  13. Might have made a bit of progress, googled megane pedal spring and stumbled across 'one' person mentioning bottom end of spring(firewall end) sits in a 'cup'???
    Felt around with my figers and felt a lump in the back of the bracket, moved spring around and heard a little click, pedal is now doing like it should, every time now!
    I've bled it, can't wait to connect electrics etc back up to see if it's ok now!
  14. Well, had a feeling it was going to be fine when i put it back together by the way the pedal felt but no, pedal has good feel but first couple of inches are slack, then pressure.
    My previous attempts at back bleeding just resulted in huge back pressure, will have another go today at it though.
  16. Sorry guys but i've officially had it with this, hooked up a new bleeder to reverse bleed, bubbles were coming up in master cylinder like they should, great i thought, at last, but pedal exactly the same, no pressure for an inch or so then pressure, pedal is returning fine.
    Don't think i've ever had a car do this to me before,but it actually gave me a sore head just now through sheer frustration!
    I just had to walk away from it.
  17. Are you getting clutch disengagement now?

    Can you get good fluid displacement bleeding it the ‘normal’ way, i.e. sliding the bleed nipple open and depressing the pedal?

    In theory you should be able to slide the bleed nipple open and then just pump the clutch pedal slowly - each depression pushes fluid out, and each pedal raise draws fluid into the line from the reservoir. I wanted to make doubley sure when I did mine that when raising the pedal, it wasn’t going to pull air back into the slave cylinder, so I opened the bleed nipple, got the Mrs to depress the pedal, then I closed the bleed nipple and she then released the pedal.

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  18. No clutch disengagement yet. To be honest with you, the bleeding side has always gone ok, all the air gets out, done!
    Reverse bleeding with the old clutch pipe was no good, now it is with new pipe installed!
    The pedal feel is now closer to being normal than it has ever been since i replaced the clutch, slave cylinder 'is' depressing the clutch plate fingers, obviously either not enough, or as i've been dreading clutch friction disc is somehow jammed and not freeing for whatever reason??(pressure bolts torqued and were evenly tightened)
    The gearbox virtually fell in to place very easily so no alignment issues. I would say slave cylinder is pushing clutch fingers in to about half way between being fully relaxed, and the fingers being flat, if you know what i mean.
    There's something i've read that i've been tempted to do, firing car up with it in gear so it jolts and might free friction disc if it's stuck? Heard someone doing that somewhere.
    So new clutch master, new complete clutch kit and flywheel, new clutch pipe from bulkhead to new clutch slave and still no luck!
  19. ianplymouth

    ianplymouth RSM Club Member

    Perhaps now is the time to do the stick to hold the clutch pedal down for a few hours.
  20. Well i've nothing to lose now, i'll put it down over night.
    ianplymouth likes this.
  21. I'm pretty sure the first inch not doing anything is pretty normal.

    It just sounds like the adjustments to the clutch plate messed it up :worried:
  22. You mean the automatic spring adjusters i preset on the pressure plate? Technician from Schaeffler who supply Luk gear in the UK said it looked spot on, i included a pic of my newly installed clutch earlier in this thread too.
    My springs when i set them were identically set to pics in the Renault service manual, Haynes and various videos on youtube.

    Attached Files:

  23. It still sounds to me as if there is still air in the system. If it was fully bled, pushing the pedal to the floor would give you maximum displacement of the slave cylinder and the clutch would disengage. If there was an issue with the clutch not being able to release, you would feel resistance in the pedal before it hit the floor.

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  24. It was odd when i was reverse bleeding it, fluid was pissing on the floor from somewhere but i just was past caring lol.
    Checked hose was still on bleed, it was ok, then checked reservoir which i had loads of tissues under to catch fluid that was getting pushed up there, it was probably that but as i said, i couldn't give a rat's arse by that point! :-)
    So, a days bleeding again tomorrow, i think i'll give the reverse bleeding a miss as it just doesn't feel right somehow. Worried pressure will bugger something knowing my luck.
    Bought a vacuum bleeder last week, i'll try that for a change.
  25. A long time ago when Renault replaced my flywheel and i got the car back the clutch was just about clearing and only had half pedal but they told me to just drive at it and the pedal would come good to which i thought yeah ok il be back tomorrow to book it back in but for some unknown reason it did sort itself out and never looked back after that. May be worth driving it of possible and see what happens
  26. That’s a good sign - if you’re getting fluid overflowing from the reservoir then your reverse bleed was pushing fluid through the system, and probably not a great deal of air. It sounds as though your clutch line from reservoir to slave bleed port is well bled, which means the only place that air can be lurking is in the slave cylinder itself. This would tie in with the issue you originally had where you couldn’t pre-fill it with fluid. All you can do to get the air out without disturbing what you have already done is to close off the system and just keep pumping the clutch pedal. The movement of fluid in the system and gravity should hopefully drive the air out of it.

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  27. I did actually at one point fill the slave with a syringe in-situ, but with all the pipe replacement etc in the meantime that's probably been undone.
    It's just so annoying that in a relatively short amout of pipework a bit of air won't shift!
  28. So, vacuum bleeder wouldn't even draw a vacuum(an Ebay special) so threw that as far as i could, tried pressure bleeder again, line blew off, fluid all over paintwork.
    Then was going to go back to normal bleeding but as has happened 'hundreds' of times before, bleeder release clip has decided to do absolutely nothing!
    No matter how much i press the clip, no matter what angle it's pushed in it's just not popping out to the bleed position(or it flies off altogether)
    I'm absolutely sick off this, as are the neighbours of my colourful language on a peaceful Sunday morning!
    Renault, what's wrong with a little aluminium body with a normal screw bleed nipple on it ffs!
  29. Well, another hour and a half wasted trying to open the bleed, i was looking forward to this pipe/bleed section being new, and finding it easier to open the bleed! .
    I'm really sorry, and i appreciate your help and i don't want to waste your time any longer, it's getting sold as is. Thing that makes me laugh was i spent 500 quid on a 2.2 diesel vectra, years mot to tide me over while this thing sits here, and it's been brilliant, yet i've spent more than 500 on this thing and it's just sitting there unusable!
    Once again, sorry to all those that have tried to help!
  30. I had problems with the bleed nipple clip - I couldn’t get it to push and release as it should do, and to be honest my fingers were hurting from doing it. I resorted to levering it off, sliding the mechanism open slightly, and then popping the clip back on before sliding it fully into the bleed position. It was a long-winded way of doing it, but you have to make sure that the sliding mechanism isn’t allowed to slide further than the bleed point - as soon as it does, air will be introduced into the line, and your hard work needs to start again.

    When you syringed fluid into the slave, did you make sure that you were leaving a gap for air to come out whilst you dribbled the fluid in? Even with all your removal of lines etc, if you had successfully filled the slave cylinder originally, there’s no real way that it will come out again as any air will alway rise up to the bleed nipple area.

    Have a break from it, and make sure you pick a day to work on it when you have time and are in a good frame of mind. I think maybe you need to confirm the slave cylinder is filled and then concentrate on the bleeding. I still think that this is where your issue lies, but any problems with the bleed nipple opening too far will keep taking you back to square one. If your bleed nipple clip is not holding it closed or holding it in the bleed position, it may be that the location groove on the slave cylinder has been worn out, which would mean replacing the slave entirely unfortunately.

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  31. I managed to get a syringe with a small tip from my vet, there was a little wiggle room after i inserted it(where have i heard that before?).
    But as you say, when clutch pipe comes out too far you're back to square one! Which has happened often!
    I actually depress the clip from under the car, unlike most others i think, from the top just seems too inaccessible for me, even after stripping stuff.
    It made me laugh tonight just how ridiculously easy it is to put pipe out a notch to bleed position with my old slave and pipe 'off' the car.
  32. Did you try pumping the clutch repeatedly before attempting the most recent bleed?

    At least you have a full system off the car so that you can see what you’re working with in the car!

    Stick at it dude, it’s amazing the difference a night’s sleep makes. No-one thinks clearly and logically when they’re in a rage about a car - I’ve been there and done that many times, and it still doesn’t make me walk away when the next problem occurs!

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  33. Yes i usually pump it between times. I was losing my rag with the bleeder today so twice it hauled right off so plenty air back in probably. One thing i will say, that bloody clutch slave pipe that sticks out the bellhousing must be the strongest part on the entire car, the amount of abuse it's had!
    tof73 likes this.
  34. Keep at it, seems a shame to be defeated by such a little issue of bleeding, i know your pain as i had a similar issue when i changed my clutch too took me 2-3 attempts to bleed the slave, tried leaving it overnight with pedal depress but nothing, then i wen at it methodically and calmly on another day and did the trick of press clutch with bleed nipples open then closed and then depress clutch pedal for about 20 minutes until my son told me the pedal is too hard to press (bless him he is only 10 and cannot reach fully the pedals even with seat to max forward),

    Not the best cars to work on but when i drove it again after a couple of month of refurb i fell in love again and have no regret of such hard work to be involved.

    I am sure when you drive it again you will sell that vectra and think none of it after a few weeks when it is all sorted.
  35. I'm going to give it one more try and that's it, if i can get the bleeder open in the first place!
    I'm going to vacuum bleed it to get things flowing in a different direction to see if that shift's it.
    Just a little back story incase you think i'm gettin defeated just by a clutch bleed.
    Over the last few months this car has had a new steering rack(pain getting correct size, everyone on Ebay had wrong size listed!) 6 racks i had sent!. Then on way home from from getting codes read for an airbag light my windscreen cracked!
    Then needed new airbag squib, then new throttle body and pedal potentiometer! I could go on but you get the idea!
    So as you can see, i don't just give up when a car needs something, but this is trying my patience to the max! :-) Did you see that smiley face there? Did you? That was an effort even to type it haha!
    tof73 likes this.
  36. All i can say i wish you good luck has i had similar issues in a very short time (involved gearbox out 3 time in 3 week end) after spending loads of money at it to refurb the car to a decent condition (mainly maintenance stuff) plus issues on my wife cars, it felt like spending my free time on blooming cars.
    Anyway good luck and all the best. in regards to smiley their is a better way to add them like i just did
  37. I'm just home at dinner time trying it, vacuum bled it, no real bubbles come out, pressure bled it running a whole litre through it, still can't get a gear!
    I've been pretty sure for about three days now the pedal is as near perfect as it's going to get, it 'should' be disengaging, pedal isn't goig to get any better i feel.
    Tried firing car up in gear, hoping it would maybe dislodge the disc if it was trapped
    By the clutch cover? Didn't do anything.
    I have another lovely new Luk clutch sitting here from a 1.9 dci, has a far sturdier looking pipework on the slave,plus,Luk preset it, not me! :blush:
    So, do i sell it or pull all this crap off again, don't think i have the drive or energy now, even refurbed the wheels, calipers etc also new discs and Hel brake lines during clutch replacement to, ahem, treat it looking forward to new clutch!

    Attached Files:

  38. I'm so confused by this whole thing

    I have a braided damper delete line on the way to replace the clutch line
    Watching midlands renault specialists do my clutch, the bleeding was a 1 minute job - done, drove out.
    So I wasn't concerned about doing it myself but you seem to be having an absolute nightmare.
    I don't get it
  39. For a while now, i've honestly thought that bleeding these is one of those 'over dramatized' car things.
    I don't mean that in a derogatory sense to people on here saying it's a pig to do, i just felt when i actually got my arse in gear using the bleeders air come out no problem, yet i was still being told there's air still in there!
    I've got that sinking feeling the clutch disc is sticking somehow.
    My 'new' torque wrench i bought specifically for fitting the clutch threw a hissy fit after two pressure plate bolts!!
    I took care after that and done it by counting angle rotations of wrench i did with correctly set ones, and tightened other ones the same! But, i've heard people say they've had pressure plate bolts come loose, so they've tightened them way over spec, without a problem???
  40. Have you tried spinning the front wheels slightly to get the gears into a different alignment? Make sure that you're not just rotating it on the diff, you need to rotate both wheels in the same direction.

    Clutch or no clutch, you should be able to put it into gear without the engine running.

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