265 Hybrid turbo, worth it? Reliability? Fuelusage?

I’ve had a hybrid turbo and map from RS Tuning for over 5 years and 50k miles on my R26 (engine is forged as well). Fuel economy is similar to before and it’s been reliable.

As long as the turbo is in good condition and map is suitable I see no reason why you would have problems.

I’m not sure what the standard injectors are like on the 265 but on R26 you need to change them otherwise they max out and don’t get full benefit from the hybrid.

 

As above, map needs to be suitable. If the engine is stock then you'd have to limit power, especially torque to give you a level of reliability and longevity. You'd also be better off upgrading the fuelling too with larger injectors def on the r26 and on the 265 IMHO. But depends what you are after.

 

Did you get Dyno graphs with that ? What other mods done (Eg fuel system ) ?

 

I wouldn't run 500nm on a stock engine even with larger injectors. More like 400Nm (equates to about 300 ft lbs).

 

I was basing that on an r26 should've clarified.

 

Yes, got dyno graphs from and it ran same power at Surrey Rolling Road which is very respected. Fuel system is standard apart from injectors, I replaced the fuel pump with new oem for piece of mind.

Spec is:
- 83mm CP Carillo pistons
- Manley rods
- ACL big end bearings
- Catcams cams
- Supertech valves
- Supertech double spring kit
- 630cc injectors
- RS Tuning Megane 250 hybrid turbo
- Forge recirc value and actuator
- ITG induction kit with larger ITG filter
- Forge intercooler
- Forge hard pipe kit
- Forge coolant hoses
- Ktec 3" exhaust
- Mapped by RS Tuning 329.9bhp and 360lbft
- RS Tuning SMF
- R26.r clutch

 

That's interesting

Your running Catcam camshafts and a hybrid turbo and your only 20hp and 20ftlb of torque up on mine, i'm running a 120k mile Std 265 turbo and standard cams.

Tried for a long time to find out what the benefits of the Catcam cams are, but no one could give me a real answer yours is the best indication of the value of them

 

Yes, Paul said that without Catcams it would really restrict the ability to make power. My spec with an upgraded fuel system would make 380bhp and 400lbft.

 

Will see what mine makes when i get my new turbo fitted, my 265 made 400hp on stock cams

 

Personally, I don't think either the hybrid or the cams are worth the money.

Mine ran 300bhp/290lb at EFi with the 250 turbo, it was dialed back a little due to standard internals. You're talking £2.5k for a hybrid and the cam for 20 or 30bhp! Ktec have a turbo upgrade for similar cost that should see you close yo 400bhp, all be it with a narrowed power band.

 

I have just bought another Borg Warner 6758 twin scroll, on full boost by 2300rpm , so pleased with the spread of torque that's why i went for the same one again.

 

After reading the gains from changing the turbo and the cost, For me, I see the Megane as a chassis focused vehicle. That £2.5k buys a lot of chassis enhancements, and if work can be done yourself a huge amount.

 

That's really impressive, almost the same as the standard turbo but with much more power top end!

 

yep, was so nice to drive on the road and even better on track, in the wet i could let the revs drop to 3k and then it was so smooth a power delivery to pull you out of the corner or use a gear higher both worked really well

 

What sort of boost pressure did you achieve at 2300 rpm and at 6000 rpm?
I'm looking at an EFR turbo but it seemed the 6758 was more suited for top end power (ie high rev band), and that if I wanted to get reasonable boost at low rev's I would be close to surge?
eg https://www.borgwarner.com/go/2FTJU9
To get a better margin to surge would I not need to drop boost even more?
Or are some of my assumed inputs to the Matchbot incorrect? Any help/feedback appreciated.

I was thinking for my RS250 to get better low end performance the 6258 would be a better fit (for street/track day car) albeit not so much top end HP/air flow
https://www.borgwarner.com/go/1PSTJO

 

from memory at 2300 i was getting about 22psi on my boost gauge, at 6000 it was showing around 28 psi, but by looking at my graph the gauge reading is off .

I was well happy about the way the power came in, the torque and pulling all the way to the red line and beyond.
I would not hesitate to buy another one, i was looking at the efr 7163, it's actually physically the same size but more power, for some reason they are difficult to find at a good price here, the one i was going to by they told me that the price had gone up by over £500 from last year.

I have now bought a Pulsar PSr5455g 30-660, in twin scroll and internal wastegated, it was only £912 shipped, i will be doing a post when i get to fit it, what it maps too etc etc

Hope this helps

here is my boost graph
https://flic.kr/p/2pczpbd

and my power graph, this is on my R26 but it has Clio 182's fitted, this apparently shifts the boost up the revs a bit, about 500 ish rpm.
https://flic.kr/p/2pcxs3g

 

@ Zoto - we are in the very same boat .... I also want low - midrange response and a wider powerband.

as you know the EFR 6258-G is very close to the hybrid TD04HL-20T but the EFR is totally in another league ...
I think this is the best spooling setup for the F4R if low - midrange response is desired with sacrifice some top end.

I just can`t find some setup on Megane on the web to have more feedback.

 

I don't know if this helps any
my 265 on standard manifold, with the adapter plate and fitted with a Borg Warner 6758 t4, twin scroll
https://flic.kr/p/2jhCGgb

 

yes it helps , many thanks Sir! that torque is just perfect for my taste!

 

From what I've been told three of the key factors in getting a reliable hybrid are

1. the centre housing type (H vs HL), and
2. the exhaust wheel used
3. balancing procedure

It primarily revolves around heat dissipation and the effectiveness of the heat shield after machining.

 

I`m very reluctant about the quality.

 

To be honest i don't blame you about a hybrid, there are some that are supposed to be good, but they are around the £1600-1800 mark, for that sort of money and maybe plus a bit, you can buy a turbo that's been designed for the job from the start.

I think with the Megane's you are not going to get the rated power anyway, my 6758 was rated at 500hp and made 438, but pulled back, my mates 250 is running a G30-660 and makes 500hp (it has all the bits fitted to get the most out of it) so these turbos aren't running at 100%

 

In the end went for the EFR 6758-G following Ian`s advice , thank you Sir!
here are some pictures vs oem for some visual comparison.

 

yes , the difference is night and day but it`s not easy to make a proper setup.
wastegate custom rod and position is crucial for the setup to properly work.
I spent a lot of time in R&D for this rod.

I found that you just can`t use the ori cast manifold and the adpater , will leak gases due to very long (and thin) bolts that will deform with the heat cycles. so you need tubular twin scroll manifold.

power delivery it`s subject to the mapping , I have mapped mine myself with a lot of fine tuning
I`m runing 1.5 bar and 0.8 lambda , first 2 gears torque limited.
ignition is not yet definitive , I use a stand alone Knock ctrl unit with dedicated 2 knock sensors , data monitor + audio setup , and I gradually tuned but stop at some point cause the power was more than enough. I will finalise this on dyno.

I also use , an Miltek SSXMTK007 cat and Scorpion catback with custom downpipes.
(all the work was done by me , but I work in automotive and I have a shop.)

price wise , will be not cheap , friendly advice , if you want more , just by an BMW M2 ....

 

initial setup with the ori manifold , later replaced with tubular





and the latest setup with tubular manifold

 

Thanks for the feedback - and nice work. Where did you get the tubular twin scroll manifold?

I'm thinking (though still to be decided EFR or G25 or Pulsar equiv. + Motec M-130; or stay with current tune & stock turbo/ECU and avoid the need for a forged engine) for my install to go with an external wastegate to get over the space and rod issues - much the same as a few others have done with Garrett G25-550/660 over here (eg Koya Works).

From what I gather though it's critcal to ceramic coat/wrap the header/down pipe and tap off turbo coolant to the wastegate to ensure reliability and keep surrounding temps in check.

 

the tubular manifold is from https://trusttubular.com , cheap but also low quality.
for the moment there is no other option until next year.

there is no need for external WG , there is very limited space also , no to mention the heat.


EFR 6758-G can be tuned for standard internals with no problem , less TQ request / boost / ignition, but you need a very good tuner that understand how to scale the injectors on this cars and proper calculate the torque maps. (stay away from remote tunes from reputable UK tuners)

M130 will be the perfect choice , I have the RS HW from Rsport Race Engineering (Australia) and it`s top job.

I highly recommend them. Mark is very dedicated and top professional person.


this setup was put toghether by Ian / Ianplymouth and he gets all the credits for the main R&D.

 

RSport is who i am looking at for the M130 package - I figure there's a much better chance of controlling torque without damage then stock ECU, but still nervous. Also gives me a lot of confidence to use them now that you've found them rock-solid. Mark certainly seems to know his stuff when I've corresponded with him.
Did you get the flex (E85) option? If so how did you find it?

Also from your earlier post
"I spent a lot of time in R&D for this rod."
Are you willing to share knowledge learnt in getting my install done if I go down the path of the EFR? Would help with getting me to commit to the project - I'm reasonable at undertaking car mods, but no where near the level of you or Ian.

 

M130 is not a torque modelling ECU but only VE based , "old" standard but very good / proved system.
It has all the muti-settings and it`s very predictable to tune. you will need also a lamda controller , ignition module etc.
the ignition system can be converted to sequentially ignition and is fully CAN BUS integrated to the car.
this is all done by the FW developed by Mark.

this is not a cheap setup.

(that been said the Renault EMS3110 and especially EMS3125 are way more advanced than the M130.
the EMS3125 for ex. is an 32bit fully integrated with full closed loop and instant calculations.
to properly tune this systems you need different approach , math extrapolation calculations and so on ...
right now ,I don`t have the M130 but I have the EMS3125 setup.
this can be tuned for E85 also but we have top 100RON fuel here so no need for the power figures I aimed for.)

forged engine + EFR6758 + Motec M130 is a lot of money. this is without supplementary expences and labour costs and time.

I will help you with info , also you have here all the info from Ian, that put together and test this combo.

 

Hi Mate
The trust manifold made be cheaper than the others available, a stainless steel fabricator i know had a look at the build, he recons it's really well built, they do 1 inch welds, this reduces stresses in the finished product, unlike the other very expensive one that was available (forgot the make) i had one on an engine i built that warped and cracked, this was supposed to be the dogs with a life time warranty, but the company no longer exists.

I have not had any problems with mine at all, done a good few trackdays and a good few thousand road miles, i'm now running a EFR7163 , no heat wrap or turbo blanket