Forge or not to Forge

It’s still a minefield forging a engine.so many are done wrong,as well as tuning issues causing blow ups.can certainly be a costly affair,even if all goes well. You have to ask yourself is it working putting thousands to a ageing car

 

I had RS Tuning build and map my forged engine in 2015. It’s still going strong so even though it was expensive it’s definitely been worth it.

Reason I had it forged was because it was using tons of oil so for me a rebuild made more sense than getting a new oem engine or a used engine that could have issues.

The chassis handles 330bhp fine but weak point is the gearbox.

 

Certainly no regrets, standard power engines have gone bang and others just seem to hang in there running 300+ hp, you just don't know what each engines limited is.

I forged my 225, 265 and my R26, the weakest part of a forged engine is the pistons, there rated at 150hp each.

So running 300hp your only using 50% of what its capable.

 

since i wanted to keep my r26r for a long long time, so i have it forged some years ago, no regret. dont have to worry "will it blow" this time if i step on the gas pedal hard for a bit longer.
i also have my 205Mi16 forged decades ago and no regret. as a 30+ years old car, it is still going strong.

so i would say if you want to keep it for long and you may occasionally give it a sprint then go for it.

 

Think about it every year. I think I have to do it now. I'm slowly assembling the parts.
Various strange sounds appeared in the engine. Some co-present for a very long time. I think the pistons are worn out. they are mostly present when the engine is hot.
I just got hooked on that car. I can't sell it. Repairs become very inconvenient because the parts are gone

 

I'm in a similar boat as you, my car runs 296bhp/303ftlb on a standard engine, has been since 2018 with a few thousand miles covered with no issues but I always know the engine could let go, but so could someones running standard power. Mine is meticulously maintained and I can only just hope for the best.

If mapped and driven properly, 350-400bhp should still be ok there's plenty running that power and more, it's all down to how well the car is mapped and how heavy your right foot is. If you moderate the throttle and drive on some decent roads/tracks then it should be fine at big figures, trying to pull away fast in the wet it probably won't.

The issues in the back of my mind is the value of it, I think mine is fantastic at this power and don't really feel that I need anymore power just the reliability.

I haven't got any costs together but surely you're somewhere near 8-10k for a fully forged 400bhp capable engine, supporting bigger turbo with all the trick bits etc and I think to myself is it worth it ?

 

No regrets. On the road I think 330 is enough but on track it would be fine with more power.

 

In my R26, I run 360bhp/340 torque, rainsport3 on road, cup2 on track, and its absolutely fine. I can spin the wheels, but I progressively open the throttle, and have never had any problems. ( That's because I drive slowly!!.) The only thing to be careful with, is the gearbox, so I tend to use power/revs, rather than torque.

 

AWMotorworks, alex used to work at engine dynamics.

 

One thing I didn't mention, the car is faster than my ability, at 82 years old, to drive it, so most of the time, it is not under maximum stress, although I am!!.

 

I'd consider something more powerful from the factory before you get carried away.

 

So who is recommended for Forged engine builds on 225/R26?

AW Motorsport
RS Tuning

 

Alex at AW Motorworks is one of the main names that gets mentioned these days - He's who I would use and he's miles away from me. Constant excellent recommendations and reviews.

There's a few others about that I'm sure do full engine builds, but you'd have to look in to their reviews etc:

RSTuning
Engine Dynamics (Alex used to work for ED) and they have been going a long time now
Cooksport
Supreme Motorsport
Ktec Racing

Probably more that I've missed

 

I'm in the same boat mine is running 290/300 and it's always in the back of the mind ain't it, like a small dark cloud of anxiety when pressing on. Like oldfella I also modulate the throttle from low revs (mainly in high gears 3rd 4th+) but in 2nd I go all out from low rpm.

Mines run this power since 2018 with no issues although there is a strange sound on the overun these days, when I let off at say 5k there's this sound I can only describe as a slight chaffing that slows as the revs slow down. I don't know if it's engine or gearbox..

 

Although my Gearbox was fine, on draining the oil, bits of metal were found, so am getting a reconditioned one. While its on the floor, (although its only 2 years old) Cambelt/oil/water pump/slave /rear AST shock and a few other bits will be fitted, and all because of a few bits of metal in the gearbox!!.

 

To add something to this and depending on how much you think it's sacrilege to remove the Renault engine.

Custom Production are nearly ready to release their K20/K24 conversion for the R26 which looks a fantastic alternative.

Supercharged or Turbo options and they're expecting it to be cheaper than forging the Renault engine with the required bits (obviously depending how far you want to go with the build)

They have a great write up on their Facebook page:https://www.facebook.com/CustomProduction1/

Neil at Renault Independent Specialist is also going this route with a BIG build, more info here: https://www.facebook.com/Rs.independent.Specialist

 

I'd honestly go look at a few other cars before you end up sinking 10k into the megane! If you've got the money and it isn't really an issue then yeah fine, but don't over look alternatives before making a decision, especially if this is a daily or only car.

A lot of people go to an e9x M3 (myself included), fantastic machines and great fun with RWD. Even a Golf R, yes they're not as nimble, but the first time you hit the go pedal in the wet and you just grip, you'll soon forgive it!

Not trying to put you off, I love my megane, it's insane, but just think about it before you make a decision!

 

The short answer is "yes"! (Because I just bought all the parts for the build.)

 

I think we all fall in love with our Megs for good reason, and it makes spending money on them much easier to justify, but I agree that your investment may be better spent on another automotive legend - one which is designed with more power as standard…. Question is, where to stop with the mods on the Meg - it’s so rewarding!

 

Is that cost for a complete package? Parts and labour included?

Also, does the engine need to come out? I know it's simpler to do it that way but if you're a mechanical muppet like me and need a professional to do all, couldn't you keep the engine in to just do the rods and pistons (and associated bearings etc) to minimise labour costs?

 

No, almost possible I'd say. How would you remove the head? How would you remove the crank if you're relying on the gearbox to hold one side in place?

I assume you'd go for slightly oversized pistons so the block would be re-bored and honed too, that way you eliminate any potential scoring that may have occurred over the existing lifespan of the block.

It's not just the cost of the initial parts you need to factor in! You'll have machine shop work (boring, head skim etc), are you going to have the crank balanced? Rods and pistons weight matched? Plus, running in oils and all other new fluids. Then fuelling, mapping and new pipework made up.

Or you buy a remapped Golf R for £15k that's still quicker

 

I don't know how you would remove the head but I've seen my tech's workshop and I've seen a few blocks in the engine bay with the head removed so it's clearly possible. Why would you need to remove the crank if all you're doing is pistons and con rods?

No, not going for oversized pistons as the engine hasn't even done 12,000 miles. I'm not planning to have the crank balanced. From what I understand that manufacturing tolerances of post-2000 engines is far superior to cars from the 70's & 80's.

In Australia for £15k you'll get a 2011 remapped Golf R with a 120,000 miles on the clock. Why would I get that to replace a 12,000 mile Trophy R? Anyway, I'm not doing it to be quicker than a coma inducing Golf or to set lap records, I do it for my own fun.

 

15k is just your build cost, sell the megane and add the two together.

Try taking the turbo off with the engine in place... now try taking the exhaust manifold.... be much quicker to drop the engine, trust me!

Personally, I'd still have the crank balanced and still have the rods and pistons weight matched. I would also go for uprated main (crank) bearings, an extra 150bhp through standard shells, not sure about that, even if it is a low mileage example.

I mean, I wish you all the best with the build, but when I've sank maybe 10k into my engine and the majority of the work I did myself, I think your budget may be ambitious, even if you half arsed leaving the original main shells!

This is assuming you're go for a big turbo upgrade to make the most? If you're just dropping forged rods and pistons but not really looking for more power then the overall build cost wouldn't be too bad, it would be pretty pointless too IMHO.

 

Id just whip the engine out to forge, its a lot easier than messing about doing an in situ drop in of pistons. Id do the full lot, new bearings, check crank etc so it will last. Ive done in situ re rings on other cars and its always a ballache.

In answer to the opening poster, if you like the meg then go for it. Its not cheap though, and be prepared to get your hands mucky on it on a regular basis.

 

So my parts list includes:

• Garrett GTX2867
  
• Stainless downpipe
• All associated water and oil plumbing hardware to fit
• Garrett turbo adapter plate
• Garret turbo boost hose
• Actuator and fitting hardware
• Bosch Injectors
• Wossner Forged pistons (already weight matched to 1.5 grams +/-)
• Manley Forged conrods (already weight matched to 1.5 grams +/-)
• ACL Race Big end bearings
• ACL Race Main bearings
• Head gasket set (OEM)
• Bottom end gasket set (OEM)
• CatCams Uprated valve springs

For £3,300. So I should factor in £11,700 for fitting labour, mapping, fluids and other miscellaneous items?

BTW, I already have:

• ITG intake
• Wagner I/C
• CGR exhaust
• Aquamist water/meth injection
• RS Tuning map

 

Block might need machining if the bores are worn, id check that before you order pistons incase you need to go up a size

 

£3300 for that? Was there a half price sale on?! Are you keeping the standard valves? No new valve seals etc? I suppose with a low mile engine they could be OK, you won't know until you get the head off I suppose. Is the turbo external Wastegate? You'll need a new manifold as well as a down pipe if so.

I wouldn't rely on the rods and pistons being weight matched, my PEC rods were shocking, the Wossner pistons were pretty good though to be fair.

Good luck with the build, you've got the parts extremely cheap so it probably is worth doing!

 

Sure you can get a mk3 running close to 400bhp for £15k ish?

 

Thanks!
Yes, it's wise to weight match the moving parts and it's cheap insurance.

I took advantage of a Black Friday sale discount, plus I don't have to pay VAT. Yes, keeping the standard valves unless the inspection demands otherwise. It's an internal wastegate turbo and I'll be using the KTR billet turbo to manifold adaptor plate so no need for the expense of an external wastegate or tubular manifold.

 

i would replace the valves
i had one break at Spa didn't look pretty

 

https://flic.kr/p/2ntaJzU

https://flic.kr/p/2ntaJLq

 

How many miles had they done before this artwork?

Did you replace with OEM or uprated items?