Speaker upgrade

Discussion in 'Electrical & Interior - Security, ICE, Wiring Loom' started by Ahmed918, Jan 6, 2020.

  1. As i’m sure many of you will agree, the sound out of the mk3 is terrible.

    i’m not expecting wonders out of them and from what i understand, the issue lies with the oem headunit.

    i’m thinking of coupling the following 2 together:

    http://caraudiosecurity.com/uno-k130-13cm-2-way-component-speakers-220w
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00PAQGYKE/?tag=rsmeg-21

    I’m aware of the concept of garbage in, garbage out but a few people seem to have a bit of success with the above amp, so long as the expectation isn't too high of high i.e a transformation to an audiophile system!
    Also, a bit of light reading suggests the tweeter’s up front are empty with connectors ready to plug and play so this should help

    Thoughts anybody? Have i picked out the correct sizing when it comes to speaker / tweeter?

    cheers
     
  2. The Hertz speakers in your link will need some sort of bezel fabricating as they are a bit small for the holes in the dash and will just fall straight through . You'll also need to get some wire tail adapters if you don’t want to cut the plugs off the loom and crimp your own terminals on - I used these

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Renault-...735124?hash=item2846654a54:g:4M4AAOSwATpdvgbn

    I sent the Hertz back and got some Pioneer TS-A133CI that came with surface mount bezels for the tweeters that fitted OK behind the grilles in the dash with a bit of double sided tape. However, they do come with a crossover that needed connecting in line to protect the tweeter but it’s quite small and I found it fitted nicely behind the side panels of the dash. The crossover is just a high pass filter so the mid bass speakers are fine connected directly to the amp but will obviously need some adapter rings.

    The Pioneer amp is worthwhile, especially if you like to turn it up a bit, but tonally I can't say for sure if it’s an improvement. The high pass switches will come into there own when I get around to fitting the little Alpine SWE-815 subwoofer Ive bought to go in the boot as it will stop the door speakers having to work so hard.

    My Cup-s had the Arkamys "upgrade" already but the above kit is still an improvement - not perfect (to my ex hi-fi dealer ears) but to go any further would get too involved on the installation side and start to cost too much.
     
  3. Many thanks for the reply and guidance, much appreciated

    I’ve considered going up a notch with the speakers
    Based on your experience and measurements you’ve taken while you did your install, would these speakers be appropriate?
    https://studioincar.com/product/audison-prima-apk-130/

    many thanks
     
  4. Performance wise they should be very good, although there is a strong family resemblance to their Hertz cousins I'm sure they will be voiced better.

    I had a quick look at the spec sheet but there's no technical drawing so can't be sure they will fit.

    The critical minimum dimension you need is ~40mm for the lip of the tweeter bezel.

    The pictures are of the Arkamys tweeters fitted originally in my car.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Just found a drawing in the owners manual. The AP1 tweeter should fit well.

    44mm overall width with a back housing width of 38.5mm

    The crossover is only 20mm thick so should fit well cable tied behind the side cheeks of the dash.

    This of course assumes Renault never changed any of this between the 250 and the 275
     
  6. Many thanks for taking the time to reply. I’ve got the speakers ordered and now on the look out for a half decent amp.
    Considered the pioneer but for roughly the same money i think there are better options.

    Thinking of a class A 2 channel amp.. will keep this thread posted as to what i end up with and how fitting / results look like sound wise!
     
  7. Ended up fitting the audison’s as linked in the thread and a HCP2 Hertz amp

    the difference is genuinely night and day

    Added a bit of dynamat around the door and around the speaker mounting too (ordered some new speaker collars for a new, clean, flush finish)

    conclusion:

    Head unit as per other threads on the forum really let the speakers down still

    bass is worlds apart from the crap it was, but still some way to go

    if anyone has any suggestions of under seat woofers SQ orientated, would be much appreciated

    head unit wise, don’t want to lose steering wheel functions, don’t have RS monitor but some say changing the deck freezes the screen up top to just the Renault logo so don’t want that either really

    something that looks OE and not have to worry about whether it’s gona get nicked overnight etc if such a thing exists??
     
  8. Have the Audison speakers lifted the sound image up? The one disappointment with my Pioneer speakers is that the crossover point is at 8kHz, meaning most of the sound is still perceived to come from the doors.

    I noticed that your Audisons cross at a more useful 3kHz(ish) to the tweeters, so theoretically should lift the sound up.

    For underseat sub I'd suggest a Focal IBUS20. I had one previously in a different car that worked well - tight and reasonably articulate. I couldn't use it in the Megane because it has Recaro's so went for a little boot mounted Alpine.
     
  9. The tweeters have definitely lifted the image up massively

    It really is night and day, you wouldn’t even think your sat in the same car

    i have thought on it some more and think head unit will remain, whilst this would make a further difference itself it’s not worth the hassle of not being able to navigate around the top screen

    Woofer wise, cheers for the recommendation.. that’s a lot of cash for an underseat sub with those wattage numbers imo.. was looking at a 10” hx250d from Hertz.. a friend somehow had a box built to fit underneath the enclosure of convertible mechanism in an Audi A5 years ago so quite compact but tight punchy and clean bass from what i remember. Spoke to him yesterday ironically had a spare brand new one of these and let it go dirt cheap !
     
  10. I wish I'd found those Audison speakers before the Pioneers. They are the only components that use a simple high pass filter and cross at 3k. There are loads of really nice components around but they require a more complex wiring scheme to the crossover box and running wires to the doors. Way too much hassle.

    That Hertz is a very different animal to a "fit and forget" active underseat sub. Will it fit under the seat in a box big enough to make it work? I did build an underseat box for a Panda 100HP but struggled to get enough internal box volume and that was using a low profile 8in Pioneer!

    These days ripping out OEM head units is only for the really committed SQ crowd - most of the time they just leave it in and use DSP processors to improve things even though this really isn't the correct hifi ethos (garbage in garbage out). But it just isn't practical most of the time and usually looks like a dogs dinner.
     
  11. I had only just stumbled across the Audison’s too .. lucky find if i’m being honest

    Indeed the Hertz is a different ball game and not as easy as an active under seat woofer
    After more research today, the model i refer to above are now discontinued.

    this is the model Hertz came up with to directly replace
    http://caraudiosecurity.com/mp-250-d4-3-pro-10-car-audio-subwoofer-1200w

    i’ve already got an amp lying around somewhere which at 2ohm will kick about 700 watts rms so could dial it back a bit to keep sub safe

    it definitely wouldn’t fit under the seat so it would have to be in the boot. It’s not the most spacious of boots to begin with, but so long as it doesn’t take masses of space, i don’t think i’d mind

    @TheHood how much should i expect to pay for a sub box to be made specific to the sub? Genres i listen to really vary from instrumental where a sealed box would really benefit, to RnB where ported more so.. and so would you recommend going ported as opposed to sealed to accommodate for the more demanding, lower frequency notes?
     
  12. I've never had anything custom made so I'm not sure of the cost involved. I've only made a couple of boxes and just followed manufacturers recommendations regarding box volume, followed tips on line regarding construction and went for sealed boxes for design simplicity. This was when I had the time and inclination for such things :grinning:.

    Theoretically a sealed box gives a flatter, deeper and more accurate response whilst a reflex port will be louder at and around the point the port is tuned for at the expense of the very lowest frequencies. In practice it just sounds like the ported box is louder, mainly I think because there are so many complex interactions going on inside the cabin that there are probably dips and peaks all over the place that have a greater effect. My advice would be to go for a correctly tuned reflex box and experiment with blocking the port turning it into a sealed box and see what you prefer.
     
  13. For a revival, did you re-use original car cabling? what did you do with the crossover that came with the speakers? Or is there anybody who knows what cabling that comes from the head unit that can be used to supply the amp or the crossover?
    Don't mind putting in some wiring, just can't find a wiring diagram... I'm not planning on changing the head unit since it had the navigation and the RS monitor in it... (car is a 275 CUP-S with Arkamsys).
    Thx!
     
  14. I used the original car speaker wiring. I just fished cables through from the crossover units I placed in the side of the dashboard to the original connectors.
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Would it sound better if the fronts were changed from 5.25 to 6.5 inch speakers.
     
  16. With all else equal, yes it would. You would need to make your own adapter rings and there is no guarantee you wouldn't run into clearance issues.
    .
     
  17. Nick

    Nick RSM Moderator

  18. Nick, did you install those speakers to your car? Is it like plug and play?

    Cheers
     
  19. Nick

    Nick RSM Moderator

    I did, nearly 2 years ago, from memory I had to swap connectors over but nothing to hard, they also come with mounting adaptors
     
  20. Thanks, i've been struggling to find speakers wich are easy to install, so maybe i try with these!
     
    Nick likes this.
  21. Nick

    Nick RSM Moderator

  22. Nick

    Nick RSM Moderator

  23. Nick

    Nick RSM Moderator

    Pretty much, I ended up soldering the wires together, was the easiest way to get them connected, you can tell their there when fitted, if I had to fit them again I would
     
    keestar1994 likes this.
  24. I'm wondering do you guys have any clue what is the maximum mounting depth for speakers to front doors. I could get Hertz speakers for solid price, but mounting depth is 7cm. Does anyone you know would it fit straight or even with spacers?

    Cheers
     
  25. I had a quick look at the specs of the Audison’s i had fitted. From what i can see on specs, the depth is around 3.35 inches.

    7cm is under 3inches so i think you should be fine with those Hertz’s speakers.

    Which ones are they from the Hertz range out of interest?
     
  26. Thank you a lot!!

    Speakers are Hertz MLK165.3, if i get those, i will also add amplifier there. I'm allready having Alpine player, and it made huge difference to sound guality with oem speakers, but there isin't allmost any low frequency.
     
  27. Those Hertz Mille’s should work really well once you get some decent power from an amp to them, let us know how they sound once in place.

    i know what you mean about lack of low frequency. Was contemplating an underseat sub or a 10” woofer in the boot, but decided against it in the end.

    so in the end i stuck with factory head unit, no sub, and had fitted the audison prima apk 130 + HCP2 Hertz amp powering them. Did make a difference on low freq, but the difference was night and day on Mids and High’s especially once fine tuned a little through EQ
     
  28. I lifted my tweeter grill up and there isn’t any but there is a plug connector. Does that mean I can just plug a tweeter in and it will work.
     
  29. Nick

    Nick RSM Moderator

    it will
     
  30. It will, but make sure the tweeters you buy have some sort of high pass filter to prevent them being blown up.
     
  31. CCE4EC4A-27A9-455F-BF14-E27FC6A40D49.jpeg Any ideas best way to connect to this.
     
  32. Thanks guys. If you buy a set of component speakers and it comes with the crossover box do you use it or use the oem wiring.
     
  33. You need to plug the OEM wiring into the crossover first, which presents a difficulty if the crossover requires both the tweeter and mid/bass speaker to be connected to it because that means you would have to run a wire either into or out of the door depending upon where you choose to locate that type of crossover.

    An easier approach is to look for a component speaker system that only needs the tweeter connecting via the "crossover" (it's actually a high pass filter). That means you connect the OEM wiring directly to the door speaker and the tweeter via the filters that can be hidden away in the dash.

    The Audison's Ahmed918 has are probably the best speakers you could get that use the simpler wiring scheme, or for less money there are the Pioneer's I have and the Alpine SPR-50C's look like a promising option budget wise somewhere between.

    Edited to add that nearly all after market speakers are not going to go as loud for the given input power, so will work a lot better with more power provided by a separate amplifier.
     
  34. Which do you think is the better speaker. Audison prima apk165 or alpine r-s65c.2

    alpine looks like the tweeter may be a better fit size wise
     
  35. If i was doing mine from scratch again i would get the renault focal kit
     
    Nick likes this.

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