crankshaft locking to tighten crank pulley

Guys,
does anyone know if on MRS3 is a possibility to lock the crank from turning? I want to torque the crank pulley. On the backside close to the oil dipstick is a check hole to screw in a bolt to check out the TDC Position. Thats not possible, would be missuse , the bolt can´t resist the torque applied to the pulley. Usually, there´s somewhere an access to the flywheel to put in an screwdriver what prevents the crank from turning. On this ****ing engine I don´t find a mousehole to get in.....
Putting back the car to the floor, shifting in gear and breaking wouldn´t be possible because it´s now jacked up and lots of things to do before. Probably someone has an idea...thanks

 

You did???? The previous torque ist 40 Nm, that might work. But then you have to apply 110° more, that might be estimated 150 Nm, maybe more. This amount of torque would never be delt with the locating pin...it will brake, bent or both and you`ll never get it out of the hole. It´s definitly not envisaged for torquing. If it worked, you´re a lucky guy….we are talking about MRS 3 with F4R-engine?

 

@ianplymouth: The locating bolt is very thin, the thread is (estimated) 10 mm, maybe 12x1,5 Can measure it tomorrow, all stuff is downstairs) The pin after the thread is 8 or 10 mm and maybe 40 mm long (if not even longer). It touches the crank intersection in a distance horizontal from the thread to the crank those 40 mms. This creates a lever from the thread to the crank locating position. If you want to counterhold a torque of 40 Nm+110° (might be about min 120-150 Nm) with a 8 mm pin whats crosses on a lenght of 40 mm to a point where this force is applied, thats really curling toenails in horror......if it worked be happy, anyway I wouldn´t repeat that hoping it will work any more. Did you apply all the rotation angle to the pulley tbh? I have now found a description from the manual, there must be a small opening close to the driveshaft where you can get access to the flywheel. Even Renault tells that you can lock the engine with an screwdriver to torque the pulley. If you use a drill shank, it´s even worse cause this does damage the thread by canting inside. To do so, the distance between the support and the moving part ( crank) should be as short as possible (alike using the srewdriver at the flywheel). Then the loads on the tool are very low.

 

The angle sensor is inside the gearbox bellhousing, right? Front side low, very easy to access? I already thought About, But the danger of damaging the teeth is too big. Might cause any engine troubles with sensing revs or crank position.
But look at this:

 

Is not for the F4R ? It´s refered to at the top of the sheet…..

 

Now I`m confused....I put the picture of message 12 in and saw afterwards that the same picture is already posted in message 10. Both pics are the same. But you state that there´s is no hole ? Generally, all pics of the manual are s*** , you have sometimes troubles to find the orientation. They are drawn in whatever positions, sometimes from below, sometimes from above, front, rear,.....and I needed sometimes more time to find the position as to fix the problem. Would be much better with real pictures. Sometimes you don´t find the point on the drawings, but I hope I will find the hole near to the driveshaft, maybe behind, to lock the crank. Couldn´t image that Renault tells theres a hole to immobilise the crank and there´s none.

 

Pic message 9 was engine K9k, not F4r

 

Then try to be quicker....my apparatus is downstairs Let see who´s the better hole-finder. Have you a car jacker or a mounting pit? My car is jacked up anyway, looks really tattered.....

 

Ups, you´ve won ! I use to work on my car in front of the house - my workshop is 2,3 m wide so I prefer to work just on parts there.

My manual is from an English guy, I´m German. Would you English man have a German manual ?
Have sometimes to pay attention that I dont work on the passenger side once I want to fix the brake pedal

 

@manugtt

When do you stand up in the morning, I need the info at 7 o´clock

 

Funny, I found it as well, but removed the small screw and bent the cover plate up. Then you see the flywheel starter gearing perfectly. Thanks mate ! Got today changed the timing belt luckily, really a job for runaways with childrens fingers. Now waiting Tuesday for my new pulley. Did today also my new Wagner intercooler, I´m curious how it feels…..

 

---unfortunately not under the house, beside the house on the parking place.. No car lift, no pit, just car stands. Nice to work lying on a carton..
I´ve made 20 years racing and working in the pits, just on stands, engine changing and everything what has to be done….

 

Today I´ve got the time to finish my car with timing belt replacing. Back to the crankshaft locking, funny....i´ve bent the cover plate up to get better access to the flywheel. Back to the torquing forces: The pulley has to be pretightend with 40 Nm, no problem to keep it on the flywheel. Then an rotation angle with additional 110° ± 10° has to be applied. I have an big torque wrench with a capability of 300 Nm. First I marked the hex on the screw and the pulley with an felt pen, then I adjusted the wrench to 130 Nm and pulled the screw bolt. Got about 30° of angle. My car is on stands, relativly low and I have less space to position the wrench perfectly, furthermore, lying half under the car it´s difficult to pull. I tried with 160 Nm and got 45° complete rotation angle. Not possible to apply more force to get more angle. I would estimate that for 110° I will need about 250 Nm. Basically no problem, tomorrow I will jack the car higher and use an extension tube to get more force. Anyway, I don´t believe that there are a dozen cars in Europe where´s the rotation angle performed as it should be. Even with the Impact driver I didn´t get one degree more than with the wrench. This story is just for information. I think it´s really a culpable negligance of Renault to leave the responsibility to the workshop how to counterlock the crank to do this job. The torque for the rot.angle is huge, but it´s correct designed and required to give the right clamping force to the pulley and the belt gear. But then they have to make sure seriously how to lock the crank to prevent it from turning during this process. If you put in a screwdriver comme ci, comme ca, there´s a really big danger to pop it out once there´s an huge impact on the wrench, causing bad injuries and probably a broken tooth of the flywheel.This small hole what we´ve found after long discussions is ridicolous and not suitable to perform this procedure. I´ve made a tool out of an old, big screwdriver what I matched to lock the flywheel safely. The only way do do the job right. I talked to my local dealer how they do the job, he just punted, told about some bullshit, my feeling is they bang it with the impact and keep fingers crossed. I also noticed that he has no idea about rotation angle demands.

 

Yes you are right to do in one movement to make the screw "plastic flow". But in my case, the remaining angle is more than 45°, so if I start there´s enough angle remaining to get it flow. I even did some copper paste on the thread to reduce the applied torque. Thats not acceptable with only torque tightening, but with rotation angle there´s no influence on the clamping force. Best would be if the engine is on the stand, the oil sump off, I did ( on other engines) a big piece of hardwood between crankshaft counterweights and block wall and locked the crank this way to tighten the pulley.

 

Car is running again well, seems to be ok....thanks for the discussion