It’s looking like a bit of a flop isn’t it. Good car but no longer the hot hatch king. I suppose it’ll keep the mk3 values high.
You could be right, I've still got a feeling that when the trophy version comes out it will be better
How disappointing for the Mk4 Megane. FK2 Civic type R is next on my wish list, not keen on what they've done to the new one visually.
I know the megane isn’t about straight line speed but as the video highlights its way underpowered and the brakes haven’t been revised for the new car. It needed 300+bhp imo. Be interesting to see the new one against a mk3 as I bet there wouldn’t be much in it on road and track and the mk3 is probably better fun to drive. I certainly wouldn’t punt 30k on one, the resale’s will be terrible.
Evo review is your benchmark. When the trophy version comes out,it will be on the pace of its competitors. on the road and track,even this version is just behind the Honda.. The 4WS is creating great turn in,but is causing a lack of confidence for the driver,as the sensation is odd. On EVO`s road route the megane,honda and GolfR where all as quick as each other..just the Honda feels the most composed. Also the honda is on 20s,bespoke tyres and multi link rear suspension. Megane was on crappy road bridgstones,and still uses torsion beam rear. It may not be a class leader anymore,but its on a par with its rivals.
Does it matter what a bunch of journos say about it? Most of them don't know their arse from their elbow. Would rather drive and make up my own mind. Out of interest, did the 250 win every group test it entered? Or did the MK3s reputation grow as more potent rivals arrived? With the Trophy imminent and more focused/powerful models sure to follow, I'm sure it will hold it's own. Ultimately though, I don't think it really matters too much. We're lucky to have so many great hot hatches to choose from. I'm not that bothered which badge is on the best one.
Time to join the Honda forum and get a new type r. .....I might get one as a track car when they are 5+ years old. However very happy with my 250. I am very sure my modded 250 will beat all those cars in every test.
Exactly...you cant define `which is best`,as people have different priority s. As i said,all of the contenders, are just a fraction within each other. Dont think you can actually buy a bad hot hatch these days.
As folks have said, the trophy version will be an interesting test comparison. I may be reading too much into things but the production timeline for the trophy did seem to accelerate after first reviews of the mk4 found it a bit lacking. I know I wouldn't have been happy of I'd bought the latest version only to be informed the trophy would follow imminently rather than at some point in the future, which is what Renault first implied. That said, I still go with James May and his fizz notion. You know quickly how special a car is if it gives you the fizz... I knew on the first drive of my 275 it was a very very good car and it gets better everyday. Compare that to an e92 M3 I had. I wasnt blown away on the test drive and at no point did I ever feel connected with the car. Perhaps the mk4 has lost its mojo a bit. Former evo review Henry catchpole does have an interesting point in this regard... He loved the mk3 for being an uncompromised hot hatch. His view on the mk4 is it's softened slightly and now is neither compromised or uncompromised. Its somewhere in the middle almost like it doesn't know what it's trying to be.
Renault is trying to fall in line with all its competitors,by offering a all round package. It needs a car that appeals to everyone,and not just hardcore fans of Meganesport,to boost sales. I still think its going to struggle to get round the`Ohh..you bought Renault...whats fallen off or broken so far??`image. Throw in the 30k price tag,as opposed to the relative bargain mk3..and it looks like a hard sell. Being good,but not great..is it going to be able to wrestle Golf/Focus/Seat sales away?
Many years ago I used to see seat on par with Renault but I think now quality wise the seat is a better made car. I think sometimes current choice is down to who's doing the best pcp deals.
i would have the honda out of all of them,if it wasnt so ridiculously styled. it has the best ride on 20s with 35 profile tyres!. how have they managed that. Its also a very civilized car to be in all the time. maybe a midlife tone down, will stop you pulling a face like sucking a lemon when you see it. And surely it will massively improve sales. Imagine you average company car man stepping out of one of these ,instead of his steady styled Golf!
They might even do bigger aftermarket spoilers!!. I quite like the look of it, the problem is it would probably attract the wrong type of person with their keys or screwdriver.
Quite agree. Personally I don't see it as Renault has an image problem. When I bought my car everyone at work said... "why would you buy a Renault migraine??" and to be fair, the car is soon to be going back into the garage for its second round of warranty work. In my mind, the bhp war and entry into the hot hatch market by new manufacturers has brought new folk who probably wouldn't have been interested previously. I don't see premium brand hot hatch drivers going for a megane.
Some of them might if the Megane beats the premium alternatives on the track. FWIW Evo Magazine has sold a big heap of RenaultSport cars in Britain alone and the Evo effect has also spread to other parts of Europe, namely people buying the five star cars never mind them having image problems. Nordschleife lap times have sold even more cars. It may even be the case that some of the premium brand people wouldn't mind the poor resale value Renaults get, since many of the premium alternatives are so costly to buy in the first place and don't really hold their value super well either when you count in how much some of the cars cost when new. The Megane is also traditionally able to punch beyond its weight (much like the current gen 308 GTi) which can mean much lower initial investment for similar track performance.
I think the Renault wins on looks, the Civic is a marvellous car but ugly AF, I couldn't be seen on one of those lol! I think they should've done a circuit lap test to give a chance as that's where it may fair well over the other cars. Perhaps the Trophy will be better (I hope).
The civic will hold its value,like all real Type R`s do. Look what the previous gen Type R is going for..still very strong money. Evo did the track laps..The renault was less than half a second behind the civic,with the Golf R a long way off. Dont really care about track manners.its the road that counts the majority of the time. All 3 cars just as quick as each other on the road...so i really dont think you can lose,no matter what you buy.
Only going on the reviews thus far it would appear that the biggest problem the new Megane has is that it just isn't special on any criteria. Why on earth would anyone buy a Renault that is just OK? Fact is the reason why we are all here is because our cars were the best drivers cars amongst the hatchback options at their respective price points. It doesn't surprise me at all for example that a few around these parts have also had Integras, Porsches or Lotus. By widening appeal they could very well have lost the USP that pushed anyone towards these products in the first place. I hope that is a load of BS and when I drive one I am blown away by it but I have my doubts, its a long time since I have read such a set of uninspired reviews. Peugeot went this way from the late 90s onwards and only recently have started to recover, I sincerely hope Renault are not making the same mistakes.
Its on the pace now for outright track ability. The trophy will be as fast as the Honda round track and road. I just think people expect Renaultsport to be class leading in the chassis dept. With this new direction of being a more civilized package..its tough to be the clear handling winner. I can see it trading blows for sales with the `lesser` brands,while not troubling the big hitters like the focus and golf.
The problem is we’ve yet to see any substantive tangible evidence of this with the Meg IV RS. Whereas it was pretty obvious with the Meg III from the start. For me, a big part of the problem is that “they’re broadening the appeal”. Who wants that? (It’s called a “Golf”). A ‘full fat’ halo model should be attractive but not have broad appeal to the average buyer — like the Meg III Trophy-R
Not so sure the previous gen Civic is holding it's money so well, perhaps the EP3 and early models yes. Annoyingly I had an EP3 and bought it cheap then sold it for less so timed it badly but what can you do lol! Great car to drive though I loved it, although it didn't handle like the Clio 200 Cup I had after. I think the Trophy will be a better match to these other competitors but yes, I fear whether Renault are changing the recipe halfway through the cooking and it's going sour. Surely they've learned by now that their customers like the more hardcore versions of these cars?
2015 previous gens 20k+,2016 23k...all real type Rs always hold money. see what ek9`s and dc2`s go for..its insane. Even ep3`s which were watered down, can go for 9k for championship white editions. Honda really seem to be able to get driver comfort and interaction right when they try. My Dc2,you could just jump in,and immediately drive right up to its limit,while feeling completely in control..it was uncanny. The new civic seems to have driving dynamics nailed,after the far to stiff previous gen model.
Ok so I read the Evo magazine review at lunch (Golf vs Megane vs Civic) and its pretty positive for the Megane, much more so than the video above. I quote 'the Megane is savagely fast point to point'. it was also only a fraction of a second slower than the CTR around the track, and actually faster around some corners. I have a feeling the Trophy will be faster and better than the CTR! Fingers crossed.
just said all that above! It will be on the pace,but the manner it goes about it requires faith that it will grip, because of the rear steer creating odd sensations. The Honda is remarkably composed for a car on watch strap tyres,inspiring confidence. I suspect when you get used to the handling traits,the megane will be a mega point to point weapon. And looks wise..whos ever going to chose the honda, if its neck and neck on ability!
I would imagine that as soon as the journo's get to grips with this tech they'll change their mind and they'll all be raving about it in a few monhts, you wait and see!
Porsche have been using passive rear steer on hot 911`s for ages now..dont remember bad press on these regarding handling feel.
Yea but that's Porsche, and they're rear wheel drive so will feel different. All journos report that once you're used to it inspires a lot of confidence, I don't see the issue. It's like getting used to driving a different car when you're used to the handling characteristics of another. Thought my 172 Cup was pants coming from a Trophy R, but now I'm used to it it's a fantastic little machine in terms of handling dynamics!
I was having this discussion with a pal, it's only 1 second slower which seems to me not a lot considering the severe power deficit. I think it's quite an achievement for Renault, and shows the Trophy should easily give that Japanese eye sore a right good pummelling!
More than a second on a track where power is not an advantage. This means that on a power track, the difference would be significantly more. Not looking good for the Meg IV.
The trophy version will just bring the Renault close to the CTR`s pace. It certainly wont be pummeling it. Its the road manners that matter .Really want to see how well the trophy can cover ground, against its rivals on british roads.
yep..trophy will be closer. But the 1.8 in the renault can never match for power, the over engineered lumps that Honda are famous for. You would think having the smaller engine would save weight..but it doesnt. In the drag race video..look how far behind the Peugeot is with its hard pushed 1.6
Re; first statement, you have no way of knowing this as it hasn't been tested yet. I'll reserve judgement until then. There were some corners the Meg was faster, depending on how the Trophy delivers it's power it may well have the upper hand. I think tracks are a good way to test these cars, and if you read the Evo review they've already answered your question and described it as savagely quick point to point, which indicates the Trophy should be even more efficient across terrain. We shall see!
Out of the full line up there isn't any that makes we like ( wow I want one of those). If the trophy isn't much better then renaults made a serious balls up
Define`pummeled`..you know with less power,on a track where the CTR can stretch its legs,the renault will still struggle to beat it. If its even a second faster,i will be utterly shocked. Renault already has a degree of torque steer,that the CTR doesnt..so whats more power going to do for its delivery.. In regards to road manners,if the renault is stiffer on the trophy,that will possibly be more of hindrance than a help, on crappy british B roads. I think if it can match the CTR on the road for point to point pace..Renault has done well. Remember the CTR was built from the ground up to be class leading in handling. This is now not the direction Renault wants to go.They want worldwide sales,not just a die hard fanbase that will sacrifice creature comforts,for out and out ground covering pace.
The Trophy is just a Cup with 20hp, not sure how many times this needs saying. The Carwow video tells me nothing. Acceleration, they're all about the same and braking will be essentially dependant on reaction time so either as a road or track car, I can't see what's wrong with the Renault. It certainly doesn't tell me that the MK4 is less focused or try to appeal to a wider audience than the MK3. What the video doesn't tell me either is how the car actually drives, handles, changes direction, turn-ins etc etc, which is pretty much the only thing I care about.
