Tuition

of course it is, of course it is,i've read some shit, but that takes the biscuit, well done.....LOL.

 

You learn step by step; classroom, part circuit (i.e. Millbrook) circuits, The Ring. With each progression, you learn more and gain more confidence and improve your skills, become safer. Only an idiot thinks they can go from a class room and hit the track at full pelt with all the safety aids turned off.

I can see why you always mention mods; it always gets a reaction .

It's quite funny

 

You learn step by step; classroom, part circuit (i.e. Millbrook) circuits, The Ring. With each progression, you learn more and gain more confidence and improve your skills, become safer. Only an idiot thinks they can go from a class room and hit the track at full pelt with all the safety aids turned off.

I can see why you always mention mods; it always gets a reaction .

It's quite funny

 

its hilarious, doesn't have a car, doesn't drive, expert on cars and driving

 

I wonder if we should start a pool to see what car he has. If it gets big enough, he might actually tell us lol.

 

not interested at all, got better things like carbon bonnets and CAE shifters and track days to talk about with like minded owners mate, hope he fecks off back to piston heads asap, loads more of his type for him to ply his trade on there .......LOL

 

I understand what CAT can do at Millbrook, but for the trackdays, getting on and learning circuits is just as important and in many cases more important. People take tuition to go faster and there are many types including just getting a bit of vehicle dynamics understanding off YouTube, but if you want to nail a decent understanding of a circuit and improve lap time you need practice. It's what racers do. Seat time.

People tend to use those selective statements like trackdays are 'just for fun' which of course they are, but then take tuition to go quicker, time their laps, move to semi slick tyres, get a buzz about stitching a quick lap together etc. So much hypocritical stuff.

 

Regarding mods, a quick reminder of what this thread is all about from VW TT:

 

You're just waffling, if you're going to quote what VWTT said then study your own response.
Quote "People take tuition to go faster"

VWTT didn't say that, he said he wants to experience the cars limits. He also mentioned that he has had tuition on all his trackdays, so makes your comment about getting experience on track irrelevant, as he has done that.

I don't think I need reminding what the thread is about.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

 

Bottom line is....he has decided to spend time and money improving himself rather than modifying his car. Fully agree.

 

i bet he's over the moon that you agree Tuition has nothing whatsoever to do with any mods, why such a hard on ? its to better your driving and understand the car a bit better, modded or not, i never time, and couldn't give a monkeys as long as i'm enjoying myself with my mates, you should try it sometime sausage.I'm at Cadwell on the 1st, come along and i might let you touch my bonnet......LOL

 

He cant come on the 1st, hes at Legoland with his mum, sorting out his licence...

 

@Aerofoil

I'm glad you agree.

Note that I added some value to the thread by providing a recommendation based on my experience and I shared a personal story, even if somewhat trite.

Rather than just share your wisdom of track / advanced driving I would be interested to hear of your own personal experience, perhaps a story, or a personal recommendation from someone who has provided you with tuition.

Personal stories add to the flavour and richness of the forum for everybody, whilst recommendations from personal experience are worth more than any potential suppliers web site blurb.

 

On that point, I am not sure that I would entirely agree. While seat time at a particular circuit can certainly be beneficial, expert driver training and an improvement in general driving techniques is beneficial everywhere.

To use a slightly unscientific example that's close to my heart - rallying. On an individual event, a local driver that knows the venue extremely well might be able to challenge a driver who competes at a much higher level, maybe even WRC level. However, put said driver into almost any other event and he would be soundly beaten by the higher level driver. Ultimately, it's understanding of driving techniques and understanding of the car that will make the difference. Local knowledge will make you fast at one venue, while improving your overall driving ability and understanding of how a car behaves will make you faster and safer everywhere. Hence why a skilled driver can drive any car quickly, anywhere.

Your overall point is correct though. Time in the car is absolutely critical and it's the one thing that most of us struggle with. There isn't enough time or money available to most of us to get the seat time we want.

 

@VW TT
@massivewangers
Yeah, agree, what they both said above!! Learn a skill that's transferable.

 

Good discussion this and agree with all of that, the only issue as I've already mentioned, is finding the balance between tuition, seat time and specific track time. That will be a personal, budget and commitment driven choice. Advice that just focuses on one aspect of that is limiting.

As mentioned, tuition can take many forms but whilst useful, just understanding some vehicle dynamics, practicing threshold braking, having a go at a bit low grip understeer/oversteer in a controlled environment is completely different from spending time with a credible race proven instructor that knows every inch of a circuit of choice and switched onto the car you are driving.

There's a balance to be had and if someone is only committing to a few trackdays a year or is one of those types that just attends a couple of circuits because that's their comfort zone and budget limit then expensive tuition is a waste. Lots of perceived skills, never employed.

The other aspect not mentioned here is the ability to use a bit of trackday self help. Many circuits, such as Bedford, have areas where you can test your own and the cars ESP-off limits with plenty of run off. Even better in the wet. You already know the 'racing line' etc, no need for more tuition and chaps drawing on white boards, get out there and spank it on a trackday you have already booked. As VW TT mentioned, just need to take the brave pill.

 

I think this is one thing I'd like to see a bit more of - empty space to mess around and find the limits safely. As you say, you can do it on a track day to some extent but, if you get too lairy, you're likely to be pulled up.

After a rebuild and lots of changes, I'd like a big empty space to test my rally car. Somewhere to mess around with the brake balance and have some space to shake it down, mess around and not hit anything. Doesn't seem to be many options on that front that I'm aware of. It's a shame, as I think a lot of people would benefit from it. I suppose the liability for the owner could be a nightmare though.

 

Yep, a bit of a gap in the market, but like you say once you make it a business things get expensive and restrictive.

I'm no sure how much a bit of (poss shared) time at Bruntingthorpe costs now. Used to be a good option for a shakedown.

Correct about trackday organisers getting the hump with inappropriate behaviour, but you can always get away with a high degree of 'looseness' particularly in a the wet and that doesn't involve ploughing the green stuff or pointing the wrong way. Other advanced option is deploy the licence and get on a test day. More tolerance for getting out of shape.

 

That was another one I was trying to remember, or name rather, Andy Walsh. Never got round to it but a few guys I have known over the years have been on one of his airfield days for precisely that reason, to explore their cars limits in a controlled and safe environment.

 

I done one of Andys courses at Crail a good number of years ago in my Evo6 (2002). Taught me a lot about car handling and still runs through my head to this day, what I learned about when I'm missing an Apex about rotating the car or pushing the nose out and how a car feels when mid corner and it starts to go light....I found it totally worthwhile and a decent grounding of car control.

 

He is still going strong. You'd need a big run up to get some Cit C1 action......If your still thinking about the C1 in 2018, maybe drop me a PM. Interesting developments.