Mk3 Uprated clutch...

Discussion in 'Mechanical - Engine, Gearbox, Exhaust etc' started by neilrs, Mar 7, 2017.

  1. great idea :smiley: i like it
     
  2. Double post
     
  3. Now it makes sense. Both friction plates are strapped to the clutch cover and you use un-sprung clutch discs. Thanks for the explanation.
    Waiting for the review of city driving behaviour.

    S.
     
    cgrautomotive likes this.
  4. cgrautomotive

    cgrautomotive RSM Trader

    We're excited to get it fitted! Hoping it can lives up to our expectations :sunglasses:
     
    Naith likes this.
  5. Any news about this?

    S.

    Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
     
  6. @cgrautomotive has got it fitted and is bedding it in. Expect a more thorough review but initial comments to me were...

    - clutch is light, similar to standard
    - bite is higher than standard
    - engagement in 1st/reverse is far less abrupt than a racing clutch but more abrupt than standard. This is expected to change as it beds in
     
  7. is this fitted with a single mass flywheel or the standard dual mass?
     
  8. It's a thinner SMF than the one currently offered from TTV that pairs with the standard, single plate clutch

    So instead of DMF and single plate clutch rated for ~380lb/ftish, this is SMF and twin plate clutch rated for ~550lb/ft
     
  9. will it rattle like the rest of single mass flywheels do?
     
  10. -Jamie-

    -Jamie- RSM Moderator

    Shouldn't with it being a sprung twin plate
     
  11. cgrautomotive

    cgrautomotive RSM Trader

    So clutch is in the car, we're still doing the bedding in miles at the minute but I'll be driving the car the coming days to get more use on the clutch.

    Firstly the pedal is light, from a weight point of view it feels almost identical to the standard clutch it's that light. You don't notice it in traffic and shifting is nice and smooth, no sudden engagement or jolt when you change gears, and no need for a left leg like Lance Armstrong.

    At the minute the engagement is a little sudden, it's definitely not terrible and is getting better and better the more I drive it. However it's no where near as bad as most "racing clutches" it's kind of in-between an OEM clutch, and a single plate clutch. However will re-report on this once we've put more miles on it and and it's fully bedded in.

    The bite is quite high, but not uncomfortably so. This is possibly something we can tweak and adjust should we need to but it's not really a problem just a passing comment compared to the OEM clutch more than anything.

    Rattle wise, there is ever so slightly more mechanical noise than the OEM clutch, but you're literally trying to listen to it to notice it, under normal driving conditions you wouldn't notice it. I didn't notice it for a the few few miles until I listened for it, and it's only on over-run above about 3-4k but is extremely faint.

    More to come by the end of the week once we've got some more miles on it :blush:
     
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  12. I always thought the oem clutch was a bit lacking in progression, will be interested in price.
     
  13. cgrautomotive

    cgrautomotive RSM Trader

    So we've had a chat to TTV and given them some feedback, turns out we have the clutch model rated to 700ft/lbs (actually tested to 900ft/lbs) so we're going to switch it for the 550ft/lbs set-up we were expecting which will help with the progression and also tweak the bite point.

    It's good to know that a 700 ft/lb clutch drives that well though if anyone's feeling brave with their Meg's :wink:
     
  14. What is going to be the difference between 700ft/lb and 550ft/lb? Is going to be organic?
    S.

    Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
     
  15. -Jamie-

    -Jamie- RSM Moderator

    Charlie any chance of seeing if ttv will do an uprated clutch to suit their SMF that's already out, I'm running that but don't fancy forking out for a full setup again, cause I'm a tight Scotsman
     
  16. Has anyone actually found the limit of a good condition standard clutch?
     
  17. -Jamie-

    -Jamie- RSM Moderator

    I'm running 385ftlbs through mine and it's been fine. There's a guy running 420ftlbs and he gets slip in 6th and low revs.

    Generally I'd say 390/400 is the safe limit
     
  18. cgrautomotive

    cgrautomotive RSM Trader

    Yes exactly, Organic plates rather than cerametallic paddle plates. Should help the engagement :blush:

    I can ask the question but I believe our flywheel is shallower to allow the twin clutch pack to fit in the bellhousing, so their clutch pack won't fit the flywheel that's designed to fit the OEM clutch. But will ask.


    Although the standard clutch and DMF can probably take a lot of torque, pushing something to the limit means it's longevity and reliability will be limited and it'll wear out much quicker. The 550ft/lb set-up we'll be selling although only rated to 550ft/lbs it won't slip until approx 650-700ft/lbs but for longevity and reliability issues they're rated to 550 :blush:
     
  19. My idea from beginning. No need for cerametallic dual disc for a Megane. I'm extremely curious about the organic version feedback. That should be almost stock feeling.

    S.

    Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
     
    cgrautomotive and MilosB like this.
  20. I asked previously. Can't be done in space available
     
  21. -Jamie-

    -Jamie- RSM Moderator

    Bit shite, all they need to do it make a clutch plate to replace the stock unit LOL.

    Guess I'll just send a stock clutch off for uprating instead then
     
  22. There isn't enough space with the normal SMF to fit 2 discs. This is why they need a bespoke flywheel.

    S.

    Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
     
  23. -Jamie-

    -Jamie- RSM Moderator

    I don't want two discs. A simple uprated sprung plate will be fine.
     
  24. I think the reason "it works" is because they have a standard 230mm twin clutch design that, I assume, is modified to fit the gearbox housing but ultimately the clutch mechanism is the same and flywheel made to fit
     
  25. The RS.Racing Megane is apparently still on a standard clutch. Cant find a Torque figure but im guessing its 400+lbft

    Sent from my F8331 using Tapatalk
     
  26. I'm not a garage - who knows how many times they will take bits out and check them over
     
  27. I was just adding to the unknown of a safe power limit mate, not slating this at all. Something I could be interested in doing further down the line [emoji106]
     
  28. Yeah sorry, wasn't meant to be defensive. Simply meaning to say I reckon any race car can run pretty much anything because they can strip everything down regularly
     
  29. I've now done around 2,300 miles on the clutch with the vast majority being motorway miles - probably 2,000 of them at least. I've also done a track day at Donington, and a few laps of a (wet) Nurburgring, and a bit of daily driving.

    Here's the review from a user experience point of view...

    INITIAL IMPRESSION
    =====

    After the install, first / reverse are very "sudden" and first to second is a difficult change. The biting point is also very high, as well as being less progressive than standard.

    Clearly, it needs to bed in and at the time I thought, "hmm..................... that's a lot of change required before I'd be happy with it".

    The gear selection is also more 'solid'. I'm not sure why that would be, but it just is. I had a new slave cylinder put in at the same time and the pedal is firmer - but not 'race car' firm, just 'new car firm'. I would need to drive a new 275, but I would assume it's probably about the same as a new car. It's about as heavy as my old 135i pedal was.

    There is a rattle when the car has been ragged and is then stationery. This is the transmission. Dipping the clutch pedal gets rid of the noise. I believe that's to do with the SMF and not the clutch.

    On 'over-run', i.e. high revs and dropping under braking, or just coasting, there's a subtle noise I really quite like. Difficult to describe but it's like a pleasant grazing of metal.

    On the road it was generally more difficult to get smooth changes between 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. Beyond that it was fine.

    It doesn't seem any more "revvy" with an SMF compared to the DMF.

    On the road - wouldn't have been an upgrade I'd want in a road car.

    On the track - due to the bite point and lack of progression, the first track day had a few jerky gear changes and I got the smell of clutch burning after the first session.... but then it seemed to improve.

    Traffic jams weren't that much fun as pulling away in first sometimes had judder and required more revs, so you could look like a bit of a muppet in town as you edge away with high revs.

    There is also a 'groaning' noise when reversing, or sometimes pulling away in first. Apparently this is normal.


    IMPRESSION NOW
    =====

    Everything I hoped it would be, it is. There is a bite adjuster for the clutch which is going to get installed, to drop the bite point so it's more 'mid-arc' than being at the top of the pedal movement and I'm hoping that will make it perfect. The bite point is the only thing I want to change

    It's still getting "better" after town driving but I honestly couldn't say I think about it anymore. The juddering when pulling away in first has pretty much gone. The bite 'window' is bigger, but it's not as progressive as a stock clutch. Changes from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd are now smooth.

    The pedal is still firm but not too hard. Traffic jams aren't any more of an issue than any manual car.... I've got used to driving an auto as a daily driver

    The groaning is still there but doesn't bother me.

    The rattle is there after hard sessions on track, but doesn't bother me.


    CONCLUSION
    =====

    If you aren't planning on running big torque, then clearly there's no issue with the standard clutch

    If you have a failed DMF, then the cost of the kit is probably not worth swapping to unless you particularly want an SMF. I don't know why you would, as the engine doesn't feel any more responsive

    If you are planning higher torque and want something that'll take it with no issues, then I can definitely recommend this as being as close to stock as you could wish for. I've driven 'race clutches' before and they are cack for normal driving round town. This is not.

    I can't think why anyone would want a 400lb/ft as a daily driver, but if you did, this ticks your box.
     
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