I've not yet driven my car on track or ... errrr... elsewhere with the stability control fully off. How much of a difference does it make to the handling?
Are you talking about the esp / sport mode button? If so, on my 250, in sport mode it reduces the amount of driver aids (changing the throttle response too) but not all of them. On track I turn it off completely. I used it in sport mode once and destroyed a new set of rear pads (ie to the metal) as every time I took a hairpin it braked the rear left/right for me.
Hold down the button, and it'll turn ESP off That means it won't cut the power to the fronts if it starts to wheelspin. No idea if it brakes at the rear, but I've always driven on track with it off
The handling is exactly the same until you start to transition into a slip regime and you then have no ESP power and braking intervention to control those more agressive slip regimes.
In normal you driving, even if you're pushing it a bit, you'll notice no difference at all. On trackdays, I found that the main issue with the ESP on (sport mode) was the car would brake the rear wheels slightly on fast corners to balance out the rear. This will wear your pads out pretty quickly!
It's mostly the same, watch out for wet roundabouts tough, rear slided alot sooner than I tought it would.
It's not the same at all, especially if you're used to the way the car handles with the assists on. The TC/ASR does quite a good job of very subtly keeping the car pointed straight and true. You almost don't really realise when it's actually doing anything. I have a theory that if you see the light flashing on the dash, that is telling you that you have done something that the driver aids couldn't stop, save or prevent. For instance if you're very aggressive with the steering you can still provoke a slide in normal mode or if you take a hump back bridge quickly, the car will leave the ground still but the light will flash. Most of the time the system is working without informing you, if left on. WIthout fully knowing the logical processes of the software I can't say this for sure, but that's how it appears to me. For the same reason I don't think the diff does much in normal mode because the TC won't allow enough wheel slip to lock it up. The first time I turned the aids fully off on my favourite DC roundabout, I very nearly power-understeered into the back of a Corsa - so used was I too the 'normal' amount of power the car lets you have.
Only with esp completely off, you can really feel the diff working. But it is not always appropriate for road driving. Personally, I switch off the esp at hillclimbs with tight corners where I can enjoy the car with less risk
This is exactly what I was talking about in my camber plate thread - the rear end seems ready to slip at lower speeds than I'd expect, and was wondering if more negative camber would help. Got told I must be a silly driver :-(
Not to try and criticise but I wonder if you're driving it like a fwd car, if you're not on the throttle to some degree the car will tend towards instability. If you're trailing the throttle through turns the car WILL be more stable and helps to pull the front around without letting the rear end try and overtake the front (over steer). It's nothing to do with being silly imo as it's a bit counter-intuitive to be on the throttle to stabilise the car but that's fwd cars for you. Though if you're already doing exactly that perhaps there's something wrong, as I've never found them dramatically unstable unless you have cold tyres and a full tank of petrol.
It's a good question, I'd think the same. I've had a mazda 3 mps and a focus RS mk2 before the megane, so have been driving 300hp+ fwd for about 6 years, albeit slightly nose heavy ones. My usual approach to a corner is to get the speed off before the corner so i'm back on the throttle holding a steady speed initially and gradually apply the throttle through the corner. Im starting to wonder if its the sub and amps and spare wheel, as well as the usual odds and ends in the boot leading to this feeling. I should add, the rear hasn't actually lost grip and started to slide, but it does feel like its right at the edge. Or maybe there's just too much that's been spilled onto roundabouts etc. Perhaps because I've lowered the car, there's more negative camber and so requires a bigger roll motion to bring the outside rear tyre into more contact, as well as the inside tyre now having less contact. This could make it feel unstable as there would be quite a big transfer of where the grip is happening.
You didn't mention roundabouts or the wet in that thread... And if anyone is turning ESP off for roundabouts or the wet, then that's essentially the thought process of a cretin Have never touched ESP for the road; you don't need to Have never had it on for a track; it's more of a liability IMO If you are entering a roundabout and then lift to a point of provoking oversteer, you entered the roundabout too quickly, whether it's wet/dry Equally if you're getting under steer on the road, you're pushing far too hard :-/ Get on a track day. The Renault ones are so cheap it's ridiculous! If you're having difficulty on the road then do the IAM course. The observers are generally pretty good
Maybe 'exact' is going to far... its the slip sooner than expected bit I'm referring to. I already have done the IAM course, I know what I'm talking about, but sure, keep pushing the driver aspect and making assumptions. You never touched the esp / sport button for the throttle mapping change? You'd be in small proportion if not.
For the road? No I use linear throttle for the track, via the RS monitor profile I'm afraid it's not an assumption. If you drive within limits and sensibly on the road then you can't do anything to get slip Even on cheap remould tyres in a 500bhp RWD car It's very simple: you're pushing too hard for the road and/or conditions. But you'll know that if you've done IAM, so we can finally agree
The roundabout i was talking about... The car had tyres with more grip in the front than in the back. I didn't suddenly lift Off, I did give a little sharper steering.. The thing that suprised me was that it just oversteerd big time, instead of giving a little slide / warning. Ofcourse I learnt my lesson and keep esp on when it's wet after that.
Maybe you missed this bit... There is a difference between between what the car feels like its doing and what is is actually doing. Please look past the idea that just because I would prefer my car not to feel like its about to oversteer me into a bush, that doesn't mean that it's necessarily at some sort of limit. At the moment it feels like its a flirtatious girl at the club, but who slaps you in the chops when you make a move - The car is telling me one thing (your about to go into a hedge), but doing another (round the corner, no drama, no slip, no squeals). It's mixed messages.
