I don't think I'm quite that bad yet! My wallet's taking a serious battering just now. I think it was you who made a post about how much your old R26 was costing you per mile, I compared my 250 against it and beat your figures quite comfortably and there's still more needing doing! Give me a week or two, hopefully I'll have this daft notion out my head!
I think I'm going to have to scratch the Lotus itch next. I've wanted one for years, was tempted when I replaced the 250 but went all sensible and bought the Clio instead. It was intended as a stop-gap between my next cars for a couple of years, but I'm really enjoying it at the moment! I really fancy an Exige S (the current V6 one) or an Evora 400. I will be keeping an eye on what Renault do with the new Alpine though.
This might seem like a personal question but do you boys buy these cars outright or are they PCP/HP/Loan? I'm possibly in a different income league to some of you but consider myself comfortable and couldn't imagine when I could afford £40k to drop on a car. In 17 years of driving £12k is the most I've spent on a car. Yes that's bought outright. Maybe that's where I'm going wrong [emoji57] Anyway back to the OP. I've no clue as for the money I'd spend I'm struggling to think of something interesting. Truth is it needs to be bigger for the child and ever growing load of crap we drag around with us and frugal for my 80 mile commute. RS 175 Lux
That's because most of the cars people talk about they never commit to. Just words, aspirations. A lot of the other stuff people drive is on PCPs. Short term renting. Looks good, feels good but all owned by finance companies or manufacturers.
Tbh if I was to buy a 'new' car now PCP or leasing would be the way to go I think. Some cracking lease deals out there and most the time what you pay over the two/three years is less then what you'd lose in depreciation as too a degree I imagine these lease companies get large discounts when buying large numbers of cars so they can offer great deals! My R26 and my 172 cup are both paid for but my BMW is on finance, low rate and I don't mind paying a little interest to have it now rather then save for a few years because if I had the hard cash in my hand I very much doubt I'd want to hand it over lol Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Pro's and con's for both i would think if your someone who likes to change cars regular buying cash doesn't seem to be the sensible option. If you intend on keeping the car for more than 2/3 years then maybe. The society we live in today most new cars will be financed given the standard family 3 door hatch can cost well in excess of 20k new never mind an high performance car. most people's earnings just have not kept pace with the cost of living
For the family car, I don't care about the finance method - I buy whichever works out cheaper, without forgetting any of the parameters, hopefully. Having said that, for my personal car, I have to pay cash because I track it and PCP or lease contracts doesn't allow it.
That's the exact same situation as me although I know plenty of folk leasing fiesta ST's and tracking them lol Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
M135i or Golf R - better day to day/road car but probably a bit souless Cayman - Nice but a few friends had them and never seemed to bond with them and all sold after fairly short periods A45 - Nice but £££ Elise - Epic handling, ownership experience etc but not a day to day car (I have 10 years Lotus exp) M2 - See A45 M3/4 - See M2 Boxster - 'Better' than a Cayman as you can have to roof off which is also nice but again, potentially a bit souless Exige V6 - As Elise but £££ Evora - Hard to fault apart from you losing the practicality S3 - Souless RS3 - See A45 Good luck!
Exactly. People now have access to cars above their normal income via renting on a PCP. Too tempting. They forget it's still an expensive option just cleverly tied up in monthly payments.
Looking to change mine soon, 3 kids now bit of a mission to get them all in when the missis needs her CRV, she wont drive the megane lol. Only one car for me....F10 M5.
All relative though isn't it, when you take out an agreement out such as a lease or PCP anyone with half a brain cell would make sure it's affordable surely? We're even looking at replacing our BMW diesel with a lease car, some cracking deals out there including road tax and cheap service plans and you've always got at least 3 years warranty so no big expenses. I mean you buy a 5 year old 530d, if that was to go tits up big time could cost you thousands Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah this is what I thought. I now instruct both technical ground school and 737 simulator for a living and consider I earn a healthy wage. Go outside our hangar and the car park is littered with A45s, S3s (sportsback for some reason), 335ds etc etc. They all belong (or are kept by) students. Hek one guy has a Mustang. Most of these kids are 19-23 and don't earn anything or very little if at all. Anything older than three years old and non performance orientated will belong to the staff. I'm a semi exception to the rule with an 08 Meg. Frustratingly slower than most of the kiddies cars which I'm reminded of on a daily basis. It gets some interest and they'll say "what brake is it" and then you've lost them because you're half the power of their PCP special. Bragging rights aside I'd love a new motor. However it's like renting a house. You're not paying into anything other than the depreciation. I suppose it comes to the same thing wether you've paid towards it and own it and sell it and clear the finance or put the balance back in your bank or cut the losses of a PCP deal but I think you still loose on PCP because anything interesting requires a good deposit in addition to the monthly spend. Dunno but I get a kick out of buying something different SH and enjoying it. Selling it on for something near to (or in some cases more than) what it cost. Last few interesting ones (Meg aside) were a C5 RS6/ Z3M Coupe/ TVR Chimaera. RS 175 Lux
People take out PCPs based on the monthly and deposit, they ignore the fact they will never probably own the car and are just paying new car depreciation anyway. Lease deals are just expensive rentals. Usually with low annual mileage restrictions and not that great value when you take into account the deposit and term length. All justified by getting a set of new car keys to a vehicle you would never consider buying outright but are comfortable blowing money on in a steady monthly commitment over many years.
Let's be honest though, I know in our case (and a lot of others)the so to speak sensible car is usually changed every 2-3 years so the finance is never cleared we just get to a point where where we can cut our loses without taking any negative equity over so I'll never technically own it. Also if it breaks I stomach repairs which like I said could be a pain and an expense I'd rather spend elsewhere like the house which is an appreciating asset. They wouldn't be an issue if the car was new like I said and under warranty. Also for example you can borrow let's say 10k on a personal loan for around 180-190 a month over 5 years, what new or nearly new car does 10k buy that isn't the likes of a Kia, Hyundai or a small entry level hatch back??? You can lease a brand new focus st diesel 185 for under 200 quid a month with every option with less then 2k down think it equates to around 6k over 2 years and it was either 10/12k a year mileage. You probably couldn't even buy one and not lose that in 2 years and that's care free motoring pretty much with road tax included. Clearly it all depends on people's circumstances but I like the piece of mind that the missus is in a nice new, safe and reliable new car to work and if I decide I'm going to shoot off for the weekend it's just a case of adding fuel! I'm an ex mechanic by trade but fixing cars is certainly a chore, I'd rather go to work and earn more to pay for such luxuries. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Of course it's your call, I just get tired of people telling me what a great deal they getting when in reality, for example, your Ford Focus is £6800 for a 2 year rental on a car you will never own.
Car finance on new cars now make up 75% of all purchases. I Can't ever envisage a time when new car sales are split 50/50. As Dan said no unexpected repair bills and gives people piece of mind. Cars are like PlayStations for most people....plug and play
Like I said they were ruff figures, I looked at it a few months back and a friend on here has one it does work out to 6k over the 2 years. We own a 5 year old 1 series diesel m sport thing, paid a smudge over 12k for it 2 years ago. Went to trade it in and were offered 7 and a bit if that, also a car I'll never own and something I've had to maintain and pay a higher monthly for. A great deal is all a matter of opinion, and we're all entitled to that and I guess it all comes down to disposable income and priorities. I'd rather save 30 quid a month and have a new car (that no one knows I really don't own, and no one cares lol) and put that towards a meal out with the missus. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Why would you need to own it if that's less than depreciation? You don't even have to finance the asset. Some lease deals are poor, some are good. Some cash deals are poor, some are good. It's the binary thinking and the assumptions (either way) that are tiring.
Would love to have a bigger house so I can have a boring practical car and then a weekend car to chop and change. Would look at Lotus' line up and Cayman GT4, GT3 CS as options - something capable out the box rather than needing to modify. That rules out BMWs in my opinion; had a 135i, and agree it's more of a tourer than sports car. Same for the CSL Sadly, I can afford the cars but don't really want to get a hefty mortgage for a big house for no real reason (only 2 of us!) so we are a 2 car household. The Meg is not in the same league out the box but is more than enough for the road and fun round the ring On how to buy cars... A friend of mine used to simply see it as paying for the depreciation. Once you have the initial capital (he had inheritance), he swapped cars once or twice a year and generally "spent" around 20k a year These were McLarens, high end Porsches etc, 150k+ motors. Things that, for someone really into their cars, less than £2k/ month was worth paying to own. I know some see loans as a way of getting the capital and as interest rates are so low, it's easily done by releasing equity He did that and then got bored so went off and did other hobbies instead
The binary thinking is when the deal is always only ever justified by using a more expensive option. A 2 year rental for £6-7K would buy outright a nearly new, reliable car with low depreciation. Much cheaper longer term. Of course it doesn't give you the keys to a shiny new more upmarket motor. This is why 2016 plate rented motors are all parked up outside cheap terrace houses and run by relatively low income people with less than a weeks savings in the bank. They work on short term monthly not long term savvy.
I totally agree with more and more people work on a short term basis, they reckon you should have at least 6 mortgage payments in the bank which I know personally me and the missus have. That's where people have got there priorities all to cock, in terms of living beyond there means. For 6-7k though what are you going to buy??? A 12 month old corsa life??? Granted you may only lose say 2-3k over a few years but it's all relative as if you were to buy a higher end car you'd lose more without a doubt Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Why worry about other people ? We lease a new Tiguan 150 TDI Match with all the bollocks for £5,250 over 24 months/30k miles all in.(inc tax and servicing). Please let me know what car for £5,250 (taxed and serviced) of the same size, spec and running costs (ie a bit of diesel, no consumables) I could have bought outright for that ? As I said, there are some terrible lease deals, but there are also some unbeatable ones too. No assumptions should be made, either way.
£5,250 over 24 months... What was initial deposit / payment at end of lease? From a pure financial pov, a £30k Tiguan being given away for 24 months for £5,250 is a loss maker I lease an astra diesel. Cost price c. £20k, paid £11k over three years. That makes sense to the lease provider... they can get it back and probably flog it for the same ... but having £25k still remaining to claw back on a 2yr old car doesn't make sense to me unless you paid something like £5k initial deposit Otherwise, please PM me how you got that kinda deal!!
List was £25k, which is totally irrelevant. It's direct from VW FS. Or you could get that deal from many leasing intermediary against a fee of between £150 and £300 (ie their profit). I just took the beat deal on an aggregator like www.contracthireandleasing.com and asked my local VW dealer to match it and they did (December 15). Took 10mn. Some people have actually paid less than that, I missed out at £4,790. I am talking overall cost over the period inc deposit. I can't remember how it's amortised, I think we pay £179/month but that's irrelevant as what counts is the total cost, ie in our case £5,250 grand total, you do the maths. Those deals were on for about 3 months with daily variations (it's pure yield management). Plenty of profit for someone on this deal. You have to pick a lease like a commodity and not be fussed about what car you get, it can be a Tiguan, a Qashqai, a Kadjar. For family duties they do the same job. I can totally see why you might think lease deals are expensive. They can be. But conversely, when you understand how they work, they are cheaper than buying outright in many cases.
Depends if you just wanted to talk about your own personal deal or the PCP, lease and car financing market in general.
About 40% of the UK Adult population only have about £500 in savings, 28% have none. Hence the smart targeting, easy low entry but long term locked in payment financial packages leading to the rapid rise in PCPs and leasing that allow the less well off or non-capital rich to acquire a new car normally well above their lifestyles, or as you put it, provide the easy choice to 'live beyond their means'.
My personal deal is very representative of the market and I was asked to share more details. Assuming that only the capital poor use such deals on the other end is wrong and ignores a big chunk of the market where the deal is picked for value rather than affordability. Where I live the 16 plated rented cars seem to live outside nice houses. Why pay more for the sake of owning ?
I was told by someone who's done pretty well for themselves and know a thing or too about money and finance is; You lease and finance depreciating assets and invest your capital into appreciating assets. They own there own successful business started from scratch with a fleet of there own wagons and around 20 blokes working for them and have multiple rental property and money invested in other businesses. Yet apart from there collection of classic vehicles there daily cars are leased and pcp'd lol Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Dan, that rule works in a Corporate environment where the yield on your capital outweigh the cost of finance. As an individual this is rarely the case, depending on your fiscal and cashflow position, although maxing out BTLs up to the CGT yearly threshold liability can be a good plan for spare cash rather than a car. Beyond that, the risk starts creeping in and you start comparing apple to pears.
Not quite right Dan. The smart operators minimise exposure to depreciating assets and try to maximise investment in appreciating assets, plus finance on a depreciating asset is a double loss.
Why pay more for the sake of owning? Because you can pay less and own. Just have to accept the brand new product is not necessarily the best financial solution.
Ah, you're comparing new to used. I would expect the used car to prove cheaper. Although, that is not even a given when all parameters are taken into account (warranty or repairs, consumables, opportunity cost). In reality, the delta is so small for a certain standard, why go second hand when you can have new ? Again, I can't think of a car less than 3 years old that would have been cheaper than the (new) Tiguan at £5,250 over 24 months. Can you ? The other obvious one is the new shape Audi A4 1.4 TSI Sport at £4,200 total over 24 months at launch (available for a few weeks) a few months ago : unbeatable, whether looking at new or reasonably recent, ie comparable.
If you look at the western world it's revolves and survives on debt. Gone are the days where most people are prepared or able to buy a brand new car cash. Why spend x amount of your hard earned pounds on a car that depreciates??? I'd rather pay down on my mortgage
The depreciation is the same irrespective of the method of payment, you pay for it in small bits or in one big lump. Millions of people still pay for their car outright and I don't blame them considering the low yields on savings...
If you had 30k to pay off a 150k mortgage the savings you make on interest payments will far out weigh any return on a savings account
But I am fixed at 1.24% for 2 years with First Direct for my BTL mortgage and get a fixed 2% on my ISA with Nationwide. I know I am a rate tart but this available to any decent LTV.
I scraped 2.26% fixed for 5 with HSBC with only around 15% ltv which I thought was pretty impressive Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
