This weeks (1st June) Autocar magazine has 4 page write up about the new 271 Clio and also a 10 page write up about Megane RS, worth the £3.80 for once
Not this week! 'Review' of the Cup-S is interesting as they fill 4 pages and barely mention it. Proper page filler.
Looks like they've both been tested in the dry on a nice toasty warm day. Probably* a good thing. *definatly.
Agreed - the difference in the wet will be marked. Your average road driver needs all the help he can. As I said, I am glad that 4wd road cars exist.
It's a warm dry day today, don't waste it. You'll never know when you'll get another chance, spend the rest of the year under steering into oblivion. OT I read it may cost 40k, lol.
Talking of understeer and oversteer, I've just seen that the oversteering BMW M2 is a full 2 sec a lap quicker than the Focus RS at Rockingham.
i don't know why you keep fishing for a bite about the Focus, its a very good car, i don't doubt that an M2 is faster on certain tracks in the right hands, it should be for the price and M car history.The focus would probably be faster than a Megane, who cares? i'd still take the Megane. Pretty much every review rates the Focus, they can't all be wrong and you right.
Particularly when the handling balance of a car has very little to do with being front, rear or 4 wheel drive. It has to do with the way it's set up. But when people can't grasp such a simple concept as the traction circle and therefore can't differentiate tractive forces from lateral acceleration, then you end up with internet experts assuming that 4wd increases lat grip when in fact, by definition, it decreases it, what with the FRS's 200kg ballast, which while great for traction, is the last thing even your average driving enthusiast would favour, let alone your average track peddler. But that's one more reason why I am glad 4wd road cars exist : they flatter the driver, as eloquently put by the Ford's product manager on a recent (and excellent) TV program about the FRS development. Each to their own basically and one can't fight market forces.
Lol, this is magical. Why do certain members keep referring to the Focus in a non Focus thread, secretly in love! Since we're talking Ford quotes, here is another. "Understeer is shit, fucking shit"
If you don't like understeer, just buy a DC2 or a DC5. Or a Megane for that matter, mine is pretty neutral, comes rain or shine, even without trail braking. But I appreciate that your average consumer prefers to carry the equivalent of two fat guys permanently. Nothing wrong with that and certainly not a judgement of value.
You really must learn to let it go and stop bringing up the much highly regarded Focus in every thread, it's getting embarrassing now, although slightly flattering. Still, on the subject of FWD, it's a flawed design, guaranteed to understeer once even the slightest of moisture hits the ground. An lsd helps a little, but you can't escape the physics of it all, asking the front wheels to do all that work only leads to tears, and more moisture and therefore more understeer, it's a vicious circle. But don't worry, it's easy to rectify, just lift off, that's it, no real skill, no real effort, lift off and let the car compose itself, pat yourself on the back and do it all again on the next corner. Anyway, let's try and get this back on topic. After all this was about an Autocar article about Renaultsports, not Hondas, not RS's, Renaults.
Understeer has nothing to do with front or rear wheel drive. You're still confusing traction and lateral acceleration, which is a very basic and simple thing to grasp for most driving enthusiasts. Why would a car understeer more in the wet ? If it's neutral in the dry, it's neutral in the wet. The overall amount of adhesion makes no difference to the balance of a chassis. Really basic stuff, like the abc of car dynamics. No real skill ? No effort ? Go and trail brake a pointy FWD chassis and then speak with the grown ups - the irony of the guy choosing 4wd and then saying "no effort" : when is your next track day btw ?
Lol, more Focus talk, I guess you can't help it. Oversteer takes skill, understeer requires lift off as you've exceeded the limits of the front wheels, those poor poor tyres, lighting up under the strain of doing too much! Accelerate, steer it's all too much. Understeer is simply the easiest dynamic to deal with, like i say, just lift off, it's easy. Understeer goes hand in hand with all FWD cars when you ask too much of them. Just lift.
Again, for clarity, the inherent balance of a chassis has nothing to do with which wheels are driven. A DC2 will oversteer on a sharp turn in off the throttle. A Megane will oversteer with very little lock on a less than perfectly smooth lift if enough lateral load. My M135i used to understeer off the throttle and even push understeer on a neutral throttle. My Megane is far more neutral and requires more skill. Again, you need to familiarise yourself with the basics of performance driving - when is your next track day anyway ?
The more you accelerate, the less you can steer, even more so when your tears have moistened the road, easing off the accelerator loses speed, allowing you to then steer again. It's the easiest dynamic to deal with. Easiest Just lift
LOL. You should enter the BTCC. In reality it sounds like you have zero motorsport / engineering / track experience. You still not grasp the difference between traction and lat grip. Why would you need to lift if your chassis is neutral ? How does 4wd increases lat grip off the throttle (ie up to the apex) ? How does an additional 200kgs increase lat grip up to the apex ? (a clue : it doesn't). When is your next track day btw ?
Look at the context maybe... I haven't but I imagine it might clear it up for you... Still, when is your next track day?
Some seriously selective and out of context mis-quoting going on here... Far easier to get back to FWD if one favours a light yet nimble and neutral chassis that will take some track abuse. The kind of thing that Mr R26 won't be too bothered about it would seem...
Lol, furious posting frenzy. You've been busted and now you're backtracking. Easier, you said so yourself. Remember to lift, stay safe! X
Busted ? I think you might be judging me by your own standards there. Anyway, when is your next track day ? X
Yes, busted, self owned, however you want to put it. You admitted yourself it's easier to move back to FWD, because it's an easy platform. Easier. Just lift.
Commendable attempt there with R26 to try and go beyond the short term, commercially driven media outputs into an area of deeper understand and appreciation of what makes a really good drivers car. Wasted. The bottom line is, 4WD cars with all their bulk and drivetrain systems isolating a fully engaged and controlled feedback driving experience never feature on the shopping list of descerning, enthusiatic and knowledgeable drivers.
Not at all, are you 12 ? It's easier to move back to FWD for track use as lighter and easier on consumables. I am pretty sure the NS-2R and PFC pads will take much more abuse than the M135i imposed on its consumables despite the M4 LCAs. The front outer shoulders in particular should survive. It's all about weight on track, not that you would know. Unless of course you can thing of a lighter RWD hatch or even 4wd ? I can't. Still, when is your next track day (for the 6th time of asking)? There must be a reason why you can't answer that one.
Lol, back tracking again, consumables now! That's a brilliant switch! Easier, fwd for the average driver! Just lift.
The Megane doesn't understeer, it's neutral - you STILL haven't tried to understand the difference between lat grip and traction ? Just google "traction circle" - it's all there. Trail braking will easily get the rear round too, but that's a skill, not that I ever expect you to know what it is - easier to add 200kg of 4wd hardware. Plus it's great for the wife in winter.
You're quite right I am an average driver compared to my fellow track drivers - when is your next track day ? Again, no need to lift with a neutral chassis like the Meg and/or with trail braking induce weight transfer : zero understeer, you should try it but maybe not on the road.
There is no correlation between handing characteristics and which wheels are driven unless you confuse traction and lat grip. When did you last track a DC2 or a DC5 ?
Remember to lift the next time you light up those tyres! Remember it even more when there's a water droplet on the road, you'll really need it then.
Wet or dry I tend to lift when I enter the braking zone and usually up to the apex (that's my racing background I guess) and then apply a proportional amount of throttle to the amount of lock I unwind to use the adhesion freed up by the decreasing slip angle for tractive purposes (basic traction circle logic there for when you've understood it) - not sure how you would negotiate a corner but if you can keep your foot in something tells me you're driving at 6/10ths, which is decent for your average road driver - when is your next track day ?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1417738 "The Trophy will eventually understeer" Doesn't understeer! Bitch please! Looked dry too! Ooops. But please, tell me more of this law breaking, physics defying car of yours!
Actually, let me re-phrase that : when was your last track day ? (not expecting much more of a response though)
