With the Mk3 Megane RS production run about to end, its the last chance to bag a new one. The next version won't be as good for sure.
Indeed. Although hatches are getting more powerful, quicker, usable and expensive, they really miss the excitement and the involvement that you get in a 250/265/275 or a Mk2 Focus RS for example. The new Type R/Focus RS/Golf R are all technologically brilliant, but none excite me at all. I can see the 4th gen Megane going the same way, which is a real shame. Maybe it'll make existing RS Megs a bit more desirable right enough!
The difference, if what you're postulating is correct, will be as that between the old Clio 197/200 and the new mk4 200/220. Many bemoan the newer Clio, but Renault say they have sold more and that demand is higher. Assuming this is true, how else do we think a business with shareholders is going to behave? 'Good' is very subjective.
Renault are more than aware of the mistakes they made with the current Clio and aren't intending making those mistakes again I was told a few weeks ago production had already stopped when I looked into ordering one
It's looking like a definate as my next car the new Megane. Always loved my renaultsports and I'm ready to change soon. Was ideally wanting an A45 but after driving an camaro auto in the states for three weeks I have now decided auto is not for me. Ill be waiting for a trophy version and then go in for a new one. Hopefully they will still do capsicum!
Just the loss of the 3 door coupe and some decent looks will be enough to kill the enthusiasm, even before all the extra weight and complexity creeps in.
I don't know that Renault have admitted to any mistakes with the Clio have they? They intended it be aimed at a wider audience so it would sell more. This they have achieved apparently, but maybe not in the UK. In order to do this, they've softened the car somewhat. You and I may not like this, but I don't think it amounts to a mistake on Renaults part, does it?
I'm not sure what you're saying here. Are you talking about getting a mk4 Megane as your next car? If you don't want an auto, I think you may be out of luck, which was the premise of the OP.
You say less exciting and VW but I expect the R is more exciting than the previous R32 which was a very clinical drive and very dull! Although it's a massive shame they haven't used a VR6 in it, the turbo variant is probably more exciting than the NA! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm coming into a Meg rs from golf r. The golf is brilliant, really ballistic and superb damping and grip. On an e X tended test drive in Wales the megane felt sharper, more focused on turn in and almost as quick - it was damp so I couldn't fully exploit the chassis. Time will tell. Mine arrives in May. Can't wait to see if it lives upto the reviews!
Yes im saying that I intend to get a Meg RS mk4 as my next car. I meant to put in my post that I believe re shot won't make the "same mistakes" as the clip 200T as I think they will offer it in both manual and auto. Manual is what I shall be buying and 5 door as were planning kids later this year.
Are Renault saying there is more demand for the current RS than the old one or more demand for the current Clio overall ? Each dealer I have spoken too in the UK or France said they have sold a small fraction of current RS compared to the old one. Which would explain while you don't see any on the road. The word "stupid" and "suicidal" was used on more than one occasion.
The RS Clio I think, rather than overall. I know the UK was the 2nd biggest market for RS products after France, and that has now become Australia, so it may well have shifted the split to other markets worldwide - but they are saying the mk4 RS has sold better than previous models.
I meant less exciting than other hatches, not the R's predecessor - which I agree is a dull drive. Sounds epic though, one of the only things going for it.
lol and probably because every man and his dog owned the R32. Until the R came out, then they all bought that.
I wasn't bothered about the numbers of owners I wanted something that would hold a bit of value and being the last VR6 Golf it was on the list but it just wasn't that fun. The R26 on the other hand is just a bit nuts ☺️
That can only be BS. I saw one in the UK in 2 years. My dealer didn't take the RS franchise because the Clio RS turbo simply doesn't sell. My French dealer (a large franchise) says they sell 1 Clio RS for every 10 old Clio they used to sell as no one wants auto on that car.
Yep, the 200T has been a dog from both sales and capability. Renault lost its way with it and thought a watered down, heavier and softer version would hit the spot. Well it did mostly with people that wear M+S slippers and listen to the Archers. A non RS with an RS badge. The 220T addressed that to some extent but got pricey. Renault know they screwed up. Ford mopped up with the Fiesta. Implication for the Mk4 Megane RS? Who knows but for certain it will be more expensive, heavier with lots more electric rubbish. They always are. The Mk3 is on the peak of the curve.
I will try and find it somewhere but I believe Renault did at some point do an interview with a magazine where they said the 200T had outsold the old 200. However admittedly it is very rare you see one. I do most days because there is a black one on the street down from me. Seen a few Trophys but nothing mental. When you compare it to the Juke Nismo/RS which is effectively the same platform/engine as the 200T Clio I can almost guarantee I will see at least one of those a day. Annoyingly that car also proves you can use a manual in that size body shell. They just lost be enthusiasts market- but this is where I agree with Renault: that market isn't what it was anymore. Cheap fast cars used to be the thing. Now people want premium brands. When I used to drive by car meet ups it always used to be Clios/Fiestas/Corsas. It's now S1s/S3s/Golf GTIs and Rs/135is etc. the increase in popularity of leasing etc making the premium brands way more affordable these days. When I was 17/18 I had a £500 Corsa B. These days 17/18 year olds have finance deals on many thing and everything. People just have more money these days (or feel like they do- whether they actually do is debatable) I personally am not interested in any of the German hot hatches. I just don't think they deliver enough of a driving thrill- hence buying an RS. I 100% agree with you and I honestly think this is the last of the genuine uncorrupted, pure driving device hot hatches. Trouble is no one really cares as that's not where the market is anymore.
When you can buy a well kitted out 5 door practical hot hatch, one that is bloody quick (albeit only in the dry in the case of the type R), why would you buy a 3 door "enthusiast" car that offers nothing but pub ammo. This is why the new breed of 5 door hatches are doing so well, specifically the AWD variants. You can't beat all year round performance. Nothing worse than waiting for a dry day to have some fun. I think people have forgotten what hot hatches are meant to be! You can blab on and on about lap times all you want, they mean nothing in real world driving, especially in a climate like ours! 4wd practical hatches are where it's at now.
Interesting argument about going up market, 4WD etc. Ford sell a huge amount more FWD hot hatches. The ST range is a huge success for Ford. The 4WD hot hatch market is an expensive, or on Fords case, niche market. The Fiesta ST proves the FWD light, simple, effective point.
It may be light, but still limited to good weather conditions like all FWD platforms. The big boys all use AWD platforms because it's what's needed to make use of all that power all of the time. Some of the lower end models have stayed FWD because the market still demands a mid range hot hatch. The ST's are more in line with the GT's. When newer models start using newer chassis they'll be 5 door only, it's the way things are going. The next fiesta st may be available in 3 door, that's only because they're using the current chassis. Wouldn't surprise me if they drop the 3 door, every company will eventually want to save as much money as possible. The 3 door light hot hatches are dying, just look at the new Clio, it's what most people want, and it's much cheaper to produce.
When you say the big boys all use 4WD, if you mean mostly farmers and Chelsea tractors, you are correct. If you look at all the true enthusiasts cars, the market is mainly 2WD. Porsche, Lotus, Ferrari, BMW, Renault, Merc, Toyota, etc. Lighter, responsive, provide feedback. A cheaper more effective solution that doesn't have the weight penalty you have to drag around 24/7. The Subaru, EVO market has died because 2WD has upped its game. You are either interested in lap times or not. If you are not interested in lap times, performance you don't need 4WD or video comparisons with a BMW M2 or rival group test data. If you are, you have to accept the 4WD disadvantages as well as the advantages.
2WD whether that's in FWD or RWD are still limited, although one is more limited than the other. I find people that are interested in track times can be quite narrow minded. Like a track time makes a car, when in reality there are far more aspects to a car that make them great. Track times on the road, with piss poor surfaces, traffic lights and poor weather are pretty much irrelevant in the grand scheme of things when you don't have the correct drivetrain. Referring to the big boys, I mean the cars running serious useable power.
2WD is the core of the performance and enthusiasts market. 4WD remains more niche. Track times add kudos, measure capability, performance, endurance and set a benchmark. It's why people are interested in them.
I know what they show, and I repeat, they are meaningless as they are set under conditions 99% of people do not drive in and by drivers that 99% of people couldn't match. The difference between any of the hot hatches under dry conditions will be barely noticeable on the road with a normal driver in it. That goes to show how limited the FWD platform is, it needs the right conditions to perform. Lap times are for people with ultimately inferior cars to brag about how someone else managed to drive one under the perfect conditions. I won't even start how some cars are different to the final product when pulling off the all important ring time. Anyway it's slightly off topic.
Lap times are not meaningless just because a buyer can't match them. It's about marketing, more importantly, knowing the true capability of the car and a development tool for manufacturers. It's only a set of data similar to mpg, accel or braking distances, running costs. How you wish to interpret it is a personal thing. You use them here to generally talk about FWD disadvantages, yet get the hump when they are used to highlight 4WD disadvantages. Ring times are just another set of times to throw into the mix of wide circuit data available in a variety of conditions. That way you can achieve an overall feel for how a car handles on the limit, whether your cash is going into a well honed product. The skill is using and interpreting the data effectively.
I use them to counteract your childish snipes at an overall superior car. It's clear you're the only one hurt by the Focus's exemplary reviews. You mention lap times being used, that's the same for car reviews, yet you're happy to ignore all the exceptional reviews for the Focus whilst moronically repeating how a car you don't own was faster on a dry day! Pot kettle black! Not to mention how you've had to almost stop using the Megane as a bench mark. That must hurt...... A lot. How anyone with such a lack of interest in a car can spend so much time investigating it, trying to knock it and ultimately failing is beyond me. You're either 12 or have an affliction that gives a similar mental capacity of a 12 year old.
4wd is a massive downgrade for me whether on the road or on the track. I'd rather be slow but use throttle modulation and make my own (occasional) mistakes than rely on 4wd for traction, wet or dry. I find it difficult to know which axle is going to lose adhesion first in a 4wd. I think people might not understand the traction circle and confuse traction with lateral acceleration. Conversely I have no problems with someone preferring a point and squirt.
But it's true, you can't argue it. Guess it's time for one of your childish posts backed up with made up information gathered during one of your anger induced Focus hating rages! Don't worry, I'm just bringing some "balance". Keep believing your own hype.
I suppose I can see the benefits of knowing the front will lose out in the vast majority of cases. Managing understeer is very easy after all.
Anyway, back on topic. The days of your lightweight 3 door mid sized hatchbacks are coming to an end. They're ALL getting heavier with more safety gear and creature comforts, because that's what the majority of people want. And it may come as a surprise, big companies want to make money.
You might be right. And the majority of driving enthusiasts stick to RWD or focused front drivers. 4wd compounds the weight problem.
regardless whether the focus is 4 or 2 wheel drive, all of the reviews are positive, testers all seem to love the balance, what is there to argue with? who honestly wouldn't buy a car because one of the supposed opposition is a 10th faster somewhere? nothing would get me into the Civic R, regardless of how much faster it supposedly was.
if i was looking for a new car my money would go on a 275 cup-s, still one of the best looking hatches out there for me, despite it's age.
5 doors doesn't help either, seem inevitable these days with manufacturers squeezing every last penny, understandable too. Fact is cars are becoming safer and better equipped. That with better built interiors means they inevitably have to be more powerful, and FWD is really approaching its limitations. Ford and Renault did very well with their revo knuckle and perfohub, and I see that Honda have introduced something similar for the type R, but it's limits are there. We can't ignore the fact that in the latest tests even the Type R was left out of some of them.
Sure, and that traction versus lateral g (and longitudinal g) is the where the compromises arise with both drivetrains. The Focus RS doesn't seem to be re-writing any of the fundamental rules, even with a bit of traction jiggling on corner exit, which is why I was interested in its track performance. But what it does do appear to do is introduce a more dynamic feel to cornering. I'm with you and where weight, computers and a degree of unpredictability creeps in, I prefer the more pure approach.
