265 Modification options for a 50/50 road/track car

Discussion in 'Suspension, Brakes, Wheels & Tyres section' started by secondborn, Nov 26, 2019.

  1. After doing 4 track days at Bedford Autodrome over the course of the last year I realised that even though I rotated the tyres (Michelin PS4S) after each track day, the outer shoulders of all the tyres are completely eaten up. After the last day I did yesterday I can even see a couple of threads of the tyre canvas on the front left, which is why I'm going to be replacing the tyres later this week (a bit of a shame, because there's at least 4mm still remaining on them other than those outside shoulders).

    With that in mind, I'm thinking whether there's anything I could do to improve the situation for the next year. I'm already considering getting a spare set of wheels and sticking some Michelin PS Cup 2 tyres on them specifically for track use (according to the marketing material they have a reinforced outer shoulder, so maybe that would be a bit of a help), while using the PS4S for road use (because for that they feel absolutely perfect). I'm also pretty sure that a big part of the initial wear problem was my own inexperience (i.e. overdriving the car) and inattention to pressures, because the tyres had clearly rolled over a lot over the course of the track days, as the sidewalls show wear down to pretty much half the Michelin logo :neutral: I've taken a track driving lesson since then to understand how to handle the car more appropriately, and lately have been trying to pay more attention to why exactly I understeer (which I assume is where I get most of the horrible wear), so hopefully that will also be an improvement.

    Nevertheless, other than getting a more track oriented set of tyres, and being less bad at driving, is there anything suspension-wise that I could do to make the tyres wear more evenly? I understand that adding some negative camber to the front would potentially be helpful, however the one thing I absolutely don't want to lose is the way the car currently feels on the road in general (because other than the track, the other main use of the car is relatively lengthy road trips, and I currently love everything about how the car feels during them). Is changing the camber something that might be a net benefit? If so, and we assumed money wasn't an issue, what would be my options to achieve a result where I would improve the tyre wear situation on the track, without compromising it (and the general feel of the car) on the road? Also, while I did say money isn't an issue, I also don't want to spend thousands on a fancy system that would be too good for my driving ability (i.e. I'm far from being a proficient track driver, and if I improve to the point where I understand that I've actually run out of the car's mechanical capability, as opposed to running out of my own talent, I will consider a more appropriate upgrade for the situation, but I prefer to start small otherwise, and work my way up).
     
  2. Have a look at BC Racing coilovers. Not a huge amount of money, in my opinion they're well made, and certainly worth the money. Many will argue with this, but many will agree! I went for the DS Series for my R26, however I went for 8kg front/7kg rear springs which I'd say are too much for general road use. However you can specify the spring rates when ordering so you have a good compromise for road/track use, and they do come with adjustable top mounts, I'm running just over - 2° of camber, hopefully when I finally get it on track, this will help. Good luck my friend!

    Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk
     
    Pyper likes this.
  3. Simply go for 1.30 -2.00 camber (it wont affect how it feels on the road) and set front tracking to between parallel and 0.20' out. The more camber the less toe seems to be needed. Monitor tyre pressures carefully - track/ambient temperature plays a big part as well - we tend to restrict runs to about four laps at a time - and then the tyres do take a while to cool down. Also make sure that your tyres have the recommended load rating - iirc they should be 95.
    As I hill climb the car, we have taken development further (most after market coil overs are far too stiff for this application)- but the standard cup suspension is really quite good and the diff does help minimise the understeer.
     
  4. Thanks - that's exactly the detail I'm looking for. As for camber adjustment, would the most straightforward way to achieve that be something like Silver Project top mounts (from what I gathered they seem to do the job as well as anything else, and cost a fraction of something like AST)?
     
  5. When on standard suspension K Tec fitted adjustable top mounts which annoyingly knocked out the top spherical bearings within a few weeks of normal driving - so they replaced them with some used AST ones which were fine.
    I have now gone to a bespoke AST set-up, fitted by Cooksport (who seem very professional) which uses a different AST top mount. All I can do is to repeat the old adage you pays you money and takes your choice.
    As an aside most of my hill climbing colleagues have found the same, which is that dedicated track coilovers are far to stiff for hill climbing - so in general our cars are quite nice on the roads, including the many less than ideal rural roads in this country (might have to wind back the dampers a tad).
     
  6. Out of interest what spring rates have you gone for on the AST's ?
     
  7. Hillclimbs and sprints is actually something that quite interests me (I haven’t done any yet, but I’m planning to apply for marshalling at some events to see what it’s like). Out of interest, how much of a difference in price was the bespoke AST setup as opposed to their standard offerings?
     
  8. I think that the AST standard rates for the road 5100 kit are 60/60 Nm. I have developed my own suspension model and came up with slightly different rates. The adjustable top mounts are an extra.
    For anyone interested in getting into motorsport, I am involved with Wiscombe hill climb in Devon and our website has various bits of information including a 'How to get Started' PDF. Doing a bit of a plug for hill climbing, as the runs are short (normally less than 1,000 m) its not particularly hard on the car - even a set of super short track tyres will normally do a couple of seasons.
     

  • Share This Page