Hi Guy's Has anyone on here had any dealings with water/methanol systems on a car, or does anyone have a kit fitted on there Megane ??? Been looking as i am sat here with crap on TV, surfing the net
As long as you don't rely on it to make power and it isn't mapped to depend on it go for it, I'll be putting a meth kit on mine purely to keep Temps down
That's all i want mine for, trying to save melting a piston, kit has to be better than another engine or a rebuild, have you had one before ????
I have plenty of experience at various levels with meth kits. Please ask this again after 3rd of Jan and I will answer you whatever you want. Happy holidays, S. Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
Happy new year! So... about that meth kit... ;-) I looked into this last year and couldn't find much outside of the USA. I like the idea of running a kit once I move to a higher rpm torque band, to keep temperatures down for track. I wouldn't be doing it for power, and would try to use the premixed windscreen wash that's a 30/70 meth/water mix I did wonder whether it's possible to get a basic kit simply starts to spray at a certain point of boost... Have you got any recommendations?
I had a few kits I eventually put on my 2 s-types , one being the s-type R and the other being the twin turbo diesel , both had Nos on them and needed some cooling while running at santa pod, bought mine from here and worked fine http://www.methanol-injection.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=21&product_id=84 mine had the progressive controller with 15 settings, so could set it at multiple boost level, but you can buy a simpler cheaper non progressive system, have fun.......you can use your washer bottle for ease but I had a tank in the boot, can buy different sizes for the use you want...don't last long trust me lol put ya headphones on and listen to my diesel, that's me your hearing not the porsche rofl
Hi Neil I looked at this quite a while ago when i was running an Uno turbo's (early 90's) , like you say it was all in the USA then, now there are a few outlets over here and prices have come down a lot, i don't at the moment want it for more power, more to protect what i have and any help in cooling everything down, can't be bad, can it. I will try and find out if a basic kit can be upgraded or could sell it on if i was to upgrade in the future. Funnily enough i was looking at the same kit Midnightrunner put up a link too. I have just booked mine in with Paul @ RS to get the map sorted today, so will have to see what that's going to cost and then maybe purchase in February, if the worst comes to the worst we could use it as a intercooler spray kit I have found a supplier for pure Meth @ £0.47 Ltr but you have to buy 205 ltr drum
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're purely looking at cooling benefits rather than octane boosting, can you not just go with water injection without the meth? Obviously water being easier to come by and easier to transport into Europe. I think this is what BMW have done on the M4 GTS?
Hi Midnight I bet he wasn't expecting that, smoked a porker, quality That was the kit i was looking at, could be worth a punt for a bit of something to play with. I have no rear seats so have plenty of room in the back for a large tank Thanks for your input
I think that the Meth is there to break the surface tension of the water, but yes i would have thought water on it's own wold work
I've seen the devils own mentioned a few times If the tank runs dry, presumably there's no 'damage' done, unless you've mapped the car specifically for it? e.g. it's like running your car on 100 RON fuel when it's been mapped for 95 RON. Won't do any harm? I'm assuming not, but thought it'd be worth clarifying
I think that's the way i will use it, tune as it is and add water/meth after, that way if you run out then no harm done, the only other way is to have a duel map but that requires the advanced kit
Hello all and happy new year. I will start my post about this by saying is something I'm following for the past 2-3 years and the most important thing to be said is that there is a lot to be gained from WI system. You will see in the next couple of years a lot of OEM cars featuring this kind of technology in a form or another. I can't go in to much detail but saying that I have a lot of experience down to molecular level is not going to be too far of truth. The WI has 2 main benefits: air-charge cooling due to evaporation and knock-mitigation due to lowering the temperature at the start of ignition. Most of the kits on the market are not sure which tactic they apply and turned out in just selling a bundle of parts. I should also say that as an engineer I'm also looking for maximum efficiency which is not something people are really doing in aftermarket field, therefore my opinion on the systems. Air-charge cooling. This sounds easy initially. Hot air vaporise the water injected to lower it's temperature. Everything sounds easy up to here. But, the water vapours take out space in the cylinder which otherwise would be filled with air and there is a fine balance between how much water can we put versus the air density due to colder charge. Bottom line is we need to inject the minimum amount of water to get the maximum amount of cooling. This is where most of the kits fail. Another limitation is the relative humidity of the air which lowers when air is compressed. Anything more and you will not evaporate further. From that minimum amount of water you inject, you want each drop of water to stay with the air until it evaporate and as much space between each droplet to have a low relative humidity of the air next to the droplet. So spray targeting is also a major point here. What usually happens with most of the installation kits is a very poor jet position, usually perpendicular to a pipe and all the water ends up washing that pipe. What really happens there, you are cooling the metal pipe and fill the engine with water vapour instead of fresh cold air. So people end up pouring buckets of water into the intake manifold in the quest of horsepower. Reason why many do finds some improvements and vouch for this technology is in fact mostly coming from the second point of lowering the air temp at the start of ignition. This transforms into knock mitigation which gets some more power, especially on engines with huge amounts of boost and high CR and also very high manifold temps. Somehow street installed kits gets a little from here and a little from there without knowing where you get what. Is not my type of doing this job, but it can be for others. So the punchline here is that a well thought and installed system can do SOOO much better than a poor installed system (speaking only about jet location, jet targeting, jet sizing, jet cone angle spray, quantity metering, pressure of injection). Second, in order to really get some benefits out, you need a way to push the engine over it's boundaries in some way, otherwise you may end up loosing power. This means either having a dual map and run leaner and more spark advance when injecting water either relying on a smart knock strategy that tried all the time to push ignition higher to get most out of the engine. To put things into perspective, your engine needs around 13.8 - 14:1 AFR for max performance but you can't run this due to knocking and melting. So normally you add fuel to vaporise and cool the start of combustion. But gasoline is a very poor cooling fluid (water is 7-8 better for same quantity). So for each part of water that really gets into combustion chamber you need to remove at least 7 parts of gasoline. Otherwise you will run extremely rich and get into rich misfire. If you manage to cool down the air, this will happen after the air temp sensor more than likely and your ECU will not be able to meter the correct amount of fuel for the air getting into the cylinder, so you may get some performance from running leaner but not that much. In the end, a well designed system can run a turbocharger engine without intercooler and still get the performance out. To really get something out, you need a decent system installed in the best posible way the current air-path offers and a tune that makes the ECU aware of what happens. Good news is that M3RS ECU has this capability, bad news is that there aren't to many people of making this and offering it to the masses if any. I'm sure it can be done with multiples way, never really stressed my minds as I never had a M3RS for me to provoque my will. I'm happy to discuss it further. S.
I've done it on a previous car. Enjoyed fantastic results. When I say fantastic, to qualify it, my fuel consumption dropped from 14L/100km to 9L/100km driving economically or inversely around 50% more engine power [heavy vehicle] for an extra 30kmh top speed (105kmh -> 135kmh). That was on a carburetor car. I have to say EFI cars are much trickier and there's a whole stack of computer assumptions that are just wrong for a good WI setup. These include A/F ratio's, engine operating temps [engine can run at some very low temp - then computer increases richness meaning all benefits lost right there] and some quite tricky things to actually manage such as water-viscosity of what you are injecting. I found for example that you have to be quite careful about injecting cold water, and less careful when it's above 40-degrees-C. Because of the simple need for transport, and seeing all the necessary work to get it done right, I deferred the project. Now I have committed to getting it up and going again on my EFI Megane now in the coming months. I think that it's a lot of work but good results are there to be had as well. It's like adding an extra 2 cylinders to your four-cylinder engine. Personally, I think Megane-3 RS's really need it. I have heard of it blowing Megane engines but I'm pretty sure that's because too much water at too low a temperature got dumped to one cylinder because of a bad system design. :-)
this just came up on ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AEM-V2-1-...877255?hash=item4b104aaf87:g:rqMAAOSwnHZYgL7h
Thanks matt Just waiting to see how much RS are going to charge me on the 30th and then sort something after that, looks good though
You know is nothing Megane related. Is just an universal kit with good marketing behind. S. Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
I wont be buying anything without speaking to someone first, it's going to be for engine safety more than extra performance.
i must look into this for my 5 turbo anyone done it on a 5 and from what is on here its easier to do on a carb engine is this true ??
Yes, it's much easier on a carby engine because you don't have any computer to fight. All you have to do is spray water into the carburetor, or into the inter-cooler which might work better if that is hot (100-degrees-c). As a [my] rule of thumb, the maximum that you will want to inject is about 50% water by volume - which seems quite a lot and it is. Just start with less. You can either set it to work on idle, using a small nozzle and have it going all the time. Or just on boost or after a particular setting from your throttle cable. If you don't feel any improvement, then you are just not spraying enough water in. Increase till you feel something
Any development on this? I've been shopping for a kit myself and was wondering if I could piggyback on some experience here :-)
My search on this, comes back to the use, if you want power etc then it needs to be mapped to make the most of the kit, when the engine is set for water/meth the ignition timing is advanced by a reasonable amount, but there is a problem then when you run out of fluid, the engine is still running a lot of advance. just adding a kit and not mapping the kit in, gives you no or very little gain, might stop a bit of pre detonation, but you would have had the car mapped (or not) and this would have been taken into consideration.
I do a fair amount of Autobahn runs and am not a stranger to the Swiss alps, I feel/see that my car is struggling there, regardless of the ProAlloy intercooler I got. Everytime I open up the hood I am shocked about the insane amount of heat that is coming from there, additional cooling seems like a good thing to do. Regarding the running out, there are boostlimiters, warning lights etc - wouldn't worry to much about that.
Reviving once again... Except that it allows you to either advance ignition, increase boost, run leaner or a combination of all three for more power. So have aftermarket kits improved since your post years ago? This kit claims to custom make to your vehicle when you give them the details: https://www.snowperformance.eu/en/water-injection/boost-cooler-stage-2-powermax
I use the DevilsOwn kit, currently not mapped in yet though. Difference in AIT temperatures is significant. My basic kit is activated above 1.5 bar pressure.
